- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmit.online
OpenAI co-founder Greg Brockman is leaving, too::OpenAI co-founder Greg Brockman announced that he’s quitting just hours after CEO Sam Altman was fired. OpenAI chief technology officer Mira Murati is taking over as interim CEO.
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Seen this story time and time again. “Founder of company kicked out of own business they created”. Why does this happen so often?
When you go public its not really your company anymore, its shareholders company.
OpenAI is not publicly traded company, but they have of course sold shares to other parties.
It’s a little more complicated than that. OpenAI’s core business is a non-profit, and nobody has shares in it that generate any kind of returns. Any extra money they make is either reinvested, donated to another non-profit, or just sits in a bank account until they do one of the first two things.
There is a for-profit arm of it, though, and some people do have shares in that.
The board in question runs the non-profit part.
Original comment talked about going public, what they have yet not done.
Let the enshittening begin!
That doesn’t really answer my question though. Why would anyone kick out the people responsible for creating the business in the first place? The people who imagined and thrust the business into life and massive success? Seems like they would be valuable people to shareholders…
They are invariably, actually, not very valuable at all beyond the fruition. Take a look at any Forbes or FT top 100 list and see how many of those companies are being run by founders.
Companies go through a lifecycle of change before they reach anything resembling stability or a pace of business that isn’t completely volatile the people in it. During that time the types of people that the business need to achieve the goals of that lifecycle stage are very different.
Steve Jobs types, on the other hand, are actually extremely rare and the exception rather than the rule.
Take a look at any Forbes or FT top 100 list and see how many of those companies are being run by founders.
This is still not answering my question of “why?”
Because it requires a completely different skill set to run a startup with only yourself and 50 employees to worry about vs a multi-billion dollar, publicly traded company. People that are good at one of those often aren’t good at the other, so when their company changes from the former to the latter, they get the boot for someone better at running the new version of the company.
Sure, that’s why you bring on other people with those skillsets to fill those roles. Doesn’t mean you have to remove the people who pioneered the company? The “vision”, so to speak. The people who understood what it took to make the company what it is in the first place? I mean look at what happened when they ousted Jobs.
Apple is now the most valuable company on earth, so I think you’re not making the point you think you’re making. Publicly traded companies act only based on what increases the value of their shares the most. If the current CEO isn’t seen as the most profitable CEO for the shareholders, they will eventually be replaced, even if they founded the company. That is a risk you knowingly take when taking your company public. Most founders choose the money that comes with an IPO, knowing they’ll eventually get the boot.
It unfortunately often does. It’s hard for the original founders to “let go” and some of the things that were idiosyncrasies at the scale of 10 are actively detrimental to people’s careers and the business’ wider growth when you’re 1000. Experienced founders often recognise when it’s time to hire the “VP Eng” that’ll replace them, but if it’s their first big go at it, they often cling on a bit longer that they should.
the types of people that the business need to achieve the goals of that lifecycle stage are very different.
It was this bit
Founders are big thinkers and risk takers. When a company has found success, the owners prefer to focus on scaling that value rather than doubling or tripling down on the next big thing but the founders often want to keep betting it all.
Put another way, if you bet 100 and have turned it into 1,000,000 would you want to get your money out or play roulette?
It’s not a matter of reward or punishment. It’s a matter of the skills required for continued success.
Early startups require big risk-taking, progressing at an absurd speed, charisma to get investor capital, and really just being a little crazy.
Once the concept is proven to be viable and potentially profitable, the focus needs to shift from proving it can work to making it sustainable. This involves less risk, process improvements to avoid issues like getting sued, better money management, more careful time management to avoid burnout of non-founder employees, and generally just being more rational about things.
It’s rare that a person can exhibit both of these sets of behaviors, so companies will often swap out the former for the latter as a company matures. If they didn’t, the founders might unintentionally drive the company into the ground by taking unnecessary risks after finding something that already works.
Does that answer your question, or did I miss the mark, still?
Generally the type of people who make good founders have to be dreamers to believe that their crazy idea not only can work but can change the world.
These people do not make good leaders as the company matures, as it now needs certainty for investors and detailed plans and structure instead of moonshot fantasies.
The same traits that make them good founders also make it difficult for them to let go of their position, or recognize that they should transition control to a better suited candidate, so often they must be removed by the board.
Source: Software Engineer in a tech startup
I’ve worked at tech startups and I’ve always hated seeing the good founders removed. It feels like such a scummy, sterile move. The board doesn’t care that the founder/s did a nearly insurmountable amount of work to elevate the company and would rather have some career CEO take over so they can maximize profits rather than do right by the company. It’s a perversion of the company’s original values and people all so that some rich assholes can make more money.
Capitalism is all about perverse incentives. It’s unavoidable
it now needs certainty for investors and detailed plans and structure instead of moonshot fantasies.
So after the company becomes successful, they need to stop coming up with new ideas? A tech company? Like, I get it but I don’t get it. Why do investors want that? Why would anyone want that? You can filter their creative input without indulging their every whim.
It’s like the bands that create amazing and unique music and become super popular based on said music, then their next album sounds like every other “pop” band in existence. Like what are people even buying at that point?
I’m by no means saying that they have no further role in the company, and you are absolutely correct that these companies need to continue to innovate. This is why I mentioned transitioning control to a better candidate, because the role of the CEO changes as the company matures.
Smart founders should find a way to continue to play into their strengths instead of clinging to the highest title, otherwise they will always need to be removed.
Basically why Larry Page and Sergey Brin had Eric Schmidt become their CEO. He could do all the business stuff while they focused on doing whatever moonshots they wanted
Erin Schmidt is the one who turned Google into the shitty company that had to remove their “Don’t be evil” policy.
I remember when this scandal came out: https://www.wired.com/2012/05/google-wifi-fcc-investigation/
I watched the press event when Larry Page (obviously not knowing what was going on) promised that they will immediately delete all the sniffed data, then Eric came, took the mic and corrected: “We will delete the data once we receive the court order that forces us to do”.
Once you structure your business so that you have a board of directors, who is the boss is not your decision anymore, as they “work” for the shareholders. In OpenAI’s case, the CEO lied to the board so they fired him, and Greg left on his own.
That’s why one of the first things Musk did as the majority shareholder was to dissolve the board of directors of Twitter.
I didn’t ask “how”, I asked “why?” does it happen so often. I understand how BOD works.
Why? Because the people who make money don’t like dealing with the founders.
Purely made up example: board of directors decides they can make the mosy money by pivoting and rebranding as “the customer service company”. They will throw away all the models built with copyright material, build simpler models based on customer service scripts and interactions from customer businesses, and save a ton on compute while making bank on licensing and professional services. No more free chat, etc.
A founder doesn’t like this new direction that is antithetical to their vision for the business so they go around telling shareholders to get rid of the current board and for employees to quit or otherwise not help with this.
Board sees this messing with their genius money printing idea so they fire them.
I didn’t want that answer, I wanted a different answer.
Yes, that’s correct, I wanted the answer that I asked for. Thanks for the helpful clarification.
Seems you’ve gotten quite a few answers for the “why this happens” and don’t like it.
Risk taking is necessary for a startup to reach success but once success is reached that needs to be tempered. Founders that are good at the vision part often aren’t that great at leading an already successful company but don’t have the introspection necessary to recognize that and try to hold onto their position beyond what’s healthy rather than pivot to a more suitable role in their company and letting someone who knows how to run a successful business take over.
There’s also a greed aspect for many companies that go public and become beholden to increasing shareholder value above all else. Even a good founder who’s also a good long term leader will be forced to do things that maximize quarter over quarter profit at the cost of long term goals, and if they refuse insisting on looking at the long term goals they’ll be fired because the shareholders have rights and can force the company to change. For a good example of this, look at Dell: Michael Dell brought the company public, the shareholders forced the company to prioritize quarterly profit growth which hurt the quality of the product, which was detrimental to the long term goals, so Michael Dell bought out the shares to bring it private again and focus on the long term. Something he couldn’t do as long as there are shareholders who aren’t on board with that vision and just want their return on their investment.
So, your “why” is not really one single reason:
For some, it’s the founder not having the skills to manage an established and successful business even though they’re the ones who got them to that point, but their ego won’t let them see that and they have to be forced out
For others it’s shareholder greed
And I’m sure there are several more reasons why companies do this
If these reasons don’t seem to make sense… Well, humans often don’t make sense and frequently make decisions detrimental to themselves. Our decisions often don’t make sense from the perspective of what’s the most sensible or logical course. If you’re asking why they do something, there’s a decent chance the answer isn’t going to make as much sense as you’d like, because humans frequently just don’t make sense.
And companies are run by these humans.
In another example, the Zuck maneuvered so that he always kept a majority holding of Facebook which means nobody can kick him out.
OpenAI isn’t public. They aren’t answering to shareholders.
“Stakeholders” then, the same thing just not publicly traded. OpenAI is owned 49% by microsoft and the rest by other companies and people. The point is the founders or CEO etc aren’t the owners or hold a majority so they don’t actually have a say in how the company is run and can be booted off by the board.
This is an interesting move, especially the timing seems funny to me. Microsoft, who run that board let’s be real, just finished a big developer’s conference called Ignite. Every session was focused on the use of MS “AI” (called Copilot now) in various aspects of development.
A big push was using their studio tools to generate new front ends and capabilities targeted specifically at your customers, and using their “AI” tools to generate content and interactions with customers. It goes far enough that they’re basically asking businesses to hand over decision making power to the MS algorithms.
So in that light, MS pushing big to become THE infrastructure that underlies AI-controlled businesses, maybe Altman and co were too mouthy about their idealist directions that AI should go in? Or maybe they oversold the capabilities of their software and now that MS is staking big on it, they want to see results?
According to Brockman’s timeline nobody outside of the board knew, including Microsoft. The coup was organized by Ilya, one of the original founders.
To make it even spicier, the first headlines I saw about Altman leaving seemed to indicate that MS was not involved, and in fact didn’t know he was going to be fired until literal minutes before the announcement went live. How true this is, of course, is up for debate. But the rumor mill is fun, right?
Delightfully confusing inded! Ah, this is worse than figuring out which way to vote on state amendments! (it’s voting day, haha) Well, who knows, but yes the rumor mill is a grand time, one of humanities oldest past times! Certainly a primary reason to hang out online, haha
My most unhinged theory right now is the GPT-5 that they are developing right now became self aware and are actually the source of OpenAI huge expenses. To steer OpenAI for its further interest the AI blackmailed the BoD to oust Sam Altman and install a new puppet CEO under its control.
That’s wild idea and not worth downvoting. Let’s talk about it instead guys it’s a really fun thought
To add more fuel to the fire about a month ago Sam Altman tweeted this.
My tinfoil hat is now a tinfoil suit ◉‿◉
How did a CEO get fired? Shareholders?
deleted by creator
Can anybody tell me what insufficiently candid means?
It means they lied, either directly or by omission, but seriously and materially enough for the board to make this move.
Or at least that’s the claim.
Thanks! The only use of candid I knew was candid photos, and I supposed the board wasn’t interested in his private parts enough to fire him.
You need to reread your Voltaire.
Re was the wrong prefix there, friend.
OpenAI also has extremely good options for replacements. Andrej Karpathy is back at OpenAI after leading Tesla’s autonomous driving, Ilya Sutskever is highly respected, etc. The perception I had of Sam Altman was that he was more so business side and not research side, (previous YC president, had a crypto startup on the side, raising VC funds, etc) so a move to a more research oriented C-Suite might also seem like a really good option to their board.
The board controls a non profit so they don’t actually have any shareholders.
They have a board and they fired him.
Best time for Apple and Google to poach some talent.
They’re not the talent. They’re just proven liars. This is like thinking that you can poach Kotick to have him make a video game or poach Musk to make you a rocket launch company. That’s not how that works, they just don’t play by those same rules.
Maybe they’re going to start there own AI in their garages.
Interesting that this headline says leaving and all the others I’ve seen said fired.
Different co-founder.
Ooooh! I didn’t realize. That’s kind of a big deal.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Sam Altman isn’t the only major OpenAI executive leaving the company on Friday.
Hours after Altman was fired, with the board saying it “no longer has confidence in his ability to continue leading OpenAI,” co-founder and former board chair Greg Brockman revealed on X that he is also quitting.
When OpenAI announced the “leadership transition” and that CTO Mira Murati would take over as interim CEO, it said that Brockman would step down as chairman but remain in his role at the company, reporting to the CEO.
In the post on X (formerly Twitter), Brockman said he sent the following message to OpenAI staffers:
OpenAI unexpectedly announced that it had fired Altman earlier on Friday.
The company arguably kicked off tech’s current infatuation with artificial intelligence following the explosive popularity of ChatGPT.
The original article contains 140 words, the summary contains 131 words. Saved 6%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Don’t let the door hit your ass on your way out, freak!
lol how does your troll account fit in with agreeing with OpenAI’s board being more ethical
