- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
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I admit I’m super surprised that the conscription age is 25.
At 25 people actually have had chance to finish their education, maybe work a few years, experience real life outside school and be mostly formed individuals.
This is bad for attacking armys like the US and Russia, where brainwashing of teenagers makes it easier to get them to pull the trigger on defenseless people.
This is good for defending armys where people actually know what they fight for.
Drafts are barbaric.
We shouldn’t accept this shit at any age in any country.
If we all just fucking stopped doing the dirty work of warmongers we would no longer have wars.
The warmonger is the one invading Ukraine.
If the russian civilans followed this rule there would be no aggressors.
Lol nvm you’re right, forcing 18 year olds to kill people against their will is totally a good guy move
Lmao you people are brainwashed psychopaths.
Russian civilians are being conscripted. As are prisoners. As are North Koreans. As are Houthis. What would your solution be, just let those armies take over Ukraine?
The solution is for everyone to reject war.
Making excuses to kill like in Ukraine is not any more just than any other excuse to kill.
If we want the US to stay in control of the world then it’s necessary to fight Russia, but it’s not necessary for amy of them to die
The Russians are at their doorstep with guns. You can’t just sit there saying “I don’t have a fight with you” and expect them to peacefully leave. They’ve already shot your neighbours. The choice is not yours. You either fight or you die.
Ok lol you go enlist then if you’re so comitted.
In fact if you support a draft we should force you to enlist against your will
The choice isn’t yours when there’s a draft. If it’s so noble to die defending your state (not people, state) then it should be no problem getting enough volunteers.
Forcing people to fight for their government is wrong. Maybe some are ok with surrender over risking their life, maybe some are staunch pacifists, maybe some feel their lives won’t change very much under new leadership and would prefer to live.
Sending teens into a bloodbath by force isn’t good no matter how you try to spin it. Yes the alternative might be losing, but that is their choice.
You should go fight, they’re accepting foreign volunteers. You go do what you’re asking these children to do. It’s the right thing, isn’t it?
The solution is for everyone to reject war.
Aw shucks, is that all it takes? How’d we overlook that?? We’ll get cracking on that right away.
In the meanwhile it makes sense for a country being invaded to do whatever it can for self preservation, especially in a defensive manner.
How exactly do you propose we get everyone to reject war?
Because Ukrainians in general didn’t want the war to begin with.
education is what makes people not fall for dumb war propaganda
How do you propose we achieve that solution, then? We do not live in a post-scarcity world, so there will always be someone who wants what their neighbor has.
We do live in a post scarcity world. All scarcity is artificial.
Welcome to reality.
That being said education is what makes people not fall for dumb war propaganda
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Or you’d all be drafted into the military of the conquering country that was the last holdout for not drafting its people.
Yeah i don’t make excuses to kill people who i have no problem with.
Maybe you should send your children against their will to fight for the profits of arms manufacturers?
The Ukrainians aren’t fighting for the profits of arms manufacturers. They’re fighting for their lives and the existence of their country and culture. The Russians are an existential threat to Ukraine. What do you think is going to happen if young Ukrainians don’t fight? The Russians are just gonna go “fair enough” and go home? You’re an idiot if you think that’s even an option.
Every war since the 70s have been for the profits of arms manufacturers
You are obviously completely ignorant of Russian and Soviet history. Look what they have already done previously in countries they invaded in their imperialist conquest of eastern Europe.
You think a draft would be bad to fight back invaders in your country? Wait until you get conscripted by that country who was invading you.
I agree with you 100%.
The worst part, is that the barbaric warmongers are absolutely conscripting and coercing their population to go kill people.
Clearly, the “Z nazis” are not to be convinced to simply stop throwing their lives away for a dictator. They actively recruit and reward people who revel in murder, and celebrate them as national heroes for their schoolchildren to look up to.
So…what are the defenders to do?
I would let the people who want to fight do so.
Forcing 18 year olds to kill against their will is so insanely fucked up.
You live till 18 and then die for the glory of a leader you didn’t agree to fight for. The second they grow up they’re told to die
Somebody hasn’t paid attention to what happens in Russian Occupied Zones. They aren’t fighting for Zelensky.
They are fighting for pride and the right to control the politics in the place they live.
None of the reason has anything to do with the ethicality of forcing people to die the second they stop being children legally.
Lol let’s make you fight against your will then since you seem so eager
I’ve been to war already so you’re barking up the wrong tree.
And no, the Russians have been caught raping, murdering, and pillaging. This isn’t just some fight over who controls the region where the people never see a difference.
True, but if the random Russian conscript stopped doing Putin’s dirty work, he would be shot. That’s a pretty good motivator.
It is massively fucked but… they probably should.
This war is ending in March or April one way or another. Europe/NATO have committed to supporting Ukraine. The US is almost guaranteed to actively betray them. And you can bet the EU and the like are going to be consolidating resources in fear of whatever else comes up.
So Ukraine needs to win NOW. It is probably already too late to meaningfully train those conscripts but having a military force that can act in that small window of late January is basically their only hope.
Its actually kinda amazing they are doing so well with so limited a draft and how russia has had to call in north korea. I mean even if russia wins their method to to fuck up ukraine infrastructure so then at that point what have they won and they buried themselves in the process.
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At that rate you might as well let NATO serve the purpose it was created for. Even tho that will.probably spark a world war.
Honestly I’m all for it; then handing the keys to Trump lmao.
Or implement a No Fly Zone and fully commit NATO forces to air defense. See Putin squirm on what to do and how to react. Makes the Putin-Trump relationship tense. Trump backing down would be seen as weak. Putin wouldn’t retaliate because he wouldn’t risk losing his puppet.
“keep the Americans in, the Germans down, and the Russians out”
best thing for America is to prolong this war as long as possible.
The best thing would have been to fund Ukraine a lot early in and knock Russia down on the cheap. But you have a point thats probably the next best thing geopolitically. The red blooded american in me is just mad we didnt take the chance at an old enemy.
Some of the gear in Ukraine right now was literally created to fight the Soviet Union. Incredible that we didn’t send it all right away, one of the biggest defense blunders of this century, easily
Exactly. It’s like a vending machine, you throw in money, and dead Russian soldiers fall out from the bottom. All without endangering the lives of NATO soldiers. How many cold war US presidents would dream of this?
I am in no way minimizing the sacrifice and suffering of the Ukrainian people, but that is happening with or without Western support - the difference is the outcome, if we give them enough weapons, they can win and end the war.
In fact, Ukraine had the initiative a couple of times, but offensives are costly and then Congress decided that they will find as many excuses as possible to ensure no equipment was to be sent for a very long time.
And every time some museum pieces at piecemeal quantities were sent, it was usually through much fanfare.
So much was lost and so much was bled, and in the hour of need we broke our promises.
American goals in Ukraine are
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make Russia pay dearly for every inch of land they take in Ukraine
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use this opportunity to give a nice cash injection to our defense contractors
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gather as much intel & data on both Russia & the modern battlefield in general. Sort of like the Spanish Civil War before WW2. A playground to test out new technologies
These goals have already been accomplished. It’s been a great couple years in terms of hurting Russia for cheap.
We want to prolong this war as long as possible. A Ukrainian victory would be just as bad as a Ukrainian loss. It’s why we modulate our aid carefully. Like Chomsky was saying before his stroke - “we will fight them to the last Ukrainian”
I think a lot of people get blinded by propaganda in the moment. Even people who retroactively would be able to see it just fine (try and find someone who believes Iraq was a justified war) strongly believe the party lines.
Reality is American interests and Ukrainian interests are not aligned.
Ukraine deserves to exist and no bullshit you make up can deprive them of that right
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That’s rich. “Send your future down the drain while we continue to send scraps.” tho even the scraps are gonna run dry soon. Fuck biden. He could have gone down in history as a truly great leader, got everything handed to him on a silver platter, but clearly, he wishes to walk in Chamberlin’s shoes.
Honestly I’m ashamed, especially as a European, we should be doing so much more. We haven’t learned anything from the great wars… We’re experiencing a “what if Czechoslovakia fought back” scenario, we can end it right there in Ukraine. But no…
That’s rich. “Send your future down the drain while we continue to send scraps
Yep, and you have every Democratic Party chickenhawk over here in the US, in total safety, cheering for it.
Also, bring back all the Ukrainian men living as expats abroad. If you want to use your Ukrainian passport to live in another country, it’s time to earn that right. Your country needs you.
What a very bizarre take. “The circumstances of my birth dictate that I should die lest I be labeled a coward by an anonymous internet user calling himself ‘phoneymouse’”
Sorry to all the downvoters for actually responding to this clown, part of me really wanted him downvoted into oblivion without explanation, but I think that’s how you make incels more incely so I figured the morally right thing to do is explain.
It’s not a bizarre take. If your home country is at war and needs soldiers, and you’re meanwhile living comfortably abroad somewhere else with your home country’s passport, that strikes me as cowardly.
Zelensky has already called on such people to help.
You’re still coming from a worldview where the home country providing a passport is a privilege, not a worldview where the ability to travel freely is a fundamental human right. I find this bizarre.
If free movement is a human right, we owe nothing to our “home” aka birth country for “allowing” us to move freely. The concept of free association is also a fundamental human right, so if I don’t want to freely associate with the country I was born in, I don’t have to.
