Correct me if I’m wrong.

Afaik, liberalism ambiguously meant both advocacy for human rights and an economic system. To avoid this confusion, the economic system has been moved out as libertarianism.

For example, accessibility improvements of government buildings is a liberal movement.

Minimizing the control over capitalism is a libertarian movement.

There’s also so called “liberals” which is not more than a hate speech. We are not “conservatives” or “liberals” in every topic.

  • thebartermyth [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    3·
    4 days ago

    Liberalism is a reaction to feudalism. It aims for systems of governments that maintain:

    1. Bureaucratic neutrality and equality under law (ie. not kings)
    2. Governmental transparency and input (ie. will of the governed)
    3. Capitalist property relations and legalist dispute mechanisms (ie. courts)

    Libertarianism originated as a term for anarchists, but now roughly means conservatives. Libertarianism attempts to bifurcate something which it calls “the Market” from “the State”.

    To avoid this confusion, the economic system has been moved out as libertarianism.

    This is simply not true. This is not how libertarianism originated, and the imagined bifurcation of economic state and governmental state is extremely modern.

    For example, accessibility improvements of government buildings is a liberal movement.

    The Americans with Disabilities Act, signed by the George H.W. Bush, is a mechanism of welfare reform which established a tort system of accessibility. The bill used cost-burden language to remove people with disabilities from public assistance and require them to individually litigate for accessibility via the court system. Please review any congressional testimony on the bill.

    Minimizing the control over capitalism is a libertarian movement.

    Both movements are capitalist. Governmental regulatory frameworks provide reliability and transparency for resolving disputes between capitalist actors. What do you mean by “control over capitalism”?

    There’s also so called “liberals” which is not more than a hate speech. We are not “conservatives” or “liberals” in every topic.

    You’ve scare-quoted so many of the relevant words that it’s hard to understand what you mean.

    • fxdave@lemmy.mlOP
      1·
      4 days ago

      Whatever I read, libertarianism is originated from classical liberalism.

        • fxdave@lemmy.mlOP
          1·
          4 days ago

          I mean, this is how I see it: Modern liberalism was too different from classical liberalism, so libertarianism had to have a different name for their classical liberal believes.

            • fxdave@lemmy.mlOP
              1·
              3 days ago

              Of course they extended it with minimal state. But how I understand it, they are very similar.

              In contrast, modern liberalism is more like how EU works with its big tech regulations. This is in contrast with the classical free market ideology. Market is not fully free under modern liberalism, because everyone sees its injustice.

              Also modern liberalism is interested in social justice like LGBTQ, while the classical is not.

              Am I incorrect?

              • beleza pura@lemmy.eco.br
                1·
                3 days ago

                this is us-american domestic politics brainrot

                please ignore any us-american terminology and concepts. both so-called “conservatives” and “liberals” in the usa are liberals. “libertarians” are also liberals. politics in the usa are so skewed to the right compared to the rest of the planet that you think all these are fundamentally different political ideologies, but they’re merely fringes of the same one. in the end, they ultimately defend private property, imperialism, and us-american hegemony. republicans and democrats act on behalf of the same interests, they just mold their presentation to appeal to different demographics

  • davel@lemmy.mlEnglish
    5·
    5 days ago

    By this helpfulprofessor.com image’s definition of libertarianism, private property is sacrosanct, so it is anathema to socialism.

    Hang out in different circles and you’ll get wildly different meanings for liberalism, conservatism, and libertarianism.

    In some circles, libertarianism advocates for the “night-watchman” capitalist state. In some other circles, libertarianism on its own is neither left nor right, because for them there is left-libertarianism and right-libertarianism.

    There’s also so called “liberals” which is not more than a hate speech.

    It seems that you think people are using “liberal” as an slur, but we have a specific meaning in mind.

    First sentence from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism :

    Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property and equality before the law.

    Second paragraph from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property :

    Private property is foundational to capitalism, an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. As a legal concept, private property is defined and enforced by a country’s political system.

    So liberals, then, are capitalism stans.

    This is in stark contrast to the first sentence from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism :

    Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership.

    We are not “conservatives” or “liberals” in every topic.

    Who are “we”, and how is this related to “topics”?

    • fxdave@lemmy.mlOP
      21·
      5 days ago

      I think what you linked is its old meaning. Now liberal is more likely about e.g. LGBTQ rights, than private property. At least, private property exists in socialism too. I can imagine a liberal socialism, where the economy is socialist, but it gives you freedom in speech, etc…

      I guess I’m from a different circle with this meaning.

      Who are “we”, and how is this related to “topics”?

      I think, a fully liberal person who is liberal in every topic, doesn’t exist. Like killing people could also be a right. So “we” is the majority of the people.