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First part to get ripped out of new cars
Might be more difficult than that. I’m in the hunt for a new work truck, a ram 2500. I’m specifically targeting a 2019-2020, because the 4G cellular module is easily removed, whereas in newer models it is soldered directly to a main telematics board and is pretty tricky to remove.
These companies don’t want you removing these systems in their current state, as they’re harvesting your data and selling it off as another revenue stream. I suspect these future monitoring systems, if removed, will brick the vehicle in one way or another.
Just disconnect the antenna and/or cover the module with something that will block any wireless signals. It’s easier upfront and simple to undo when you want to sell the vehicle.
It was my go-to solution whenever I bought a vehicle with OnStar.
I suspect that like John Deere there will be a Ukrainian style hack that undermines this bullshit.
Look at fleet trucks. Usually you can get them without any bs. Like even no ac, just a frame, body, and powertrain.
Also fancy electronics like that are pretty easy to disable hardware wise. Break a cap in the voltage regulation, break a few pins of a IC, anything really that functional kills it but still let’s everything else think it’s there or there a problem it has to ignore. Like microphone modules, I shove a pin it and scramble it then fill it with CA glue. Hardware thinks it’s there but it ain’t doing anything.
Someone linked a nice explainer on the topic in this thread, but my takeaway was that this is unlikely to ever exist
TLDR of the TLDR (which I recommend reading)
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the regulatory body is super slow, and won’t approve a change unless all the ducks are in a row
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there’s no safe way to stop or disable a car while it’s moving, so the regulatory body won’t approve it anytime soon
That second part isn’t really true. Many cars now have cellular modems in them to provide WiFi and infotainment features. That means there is already a remote access capability in those vehicles. Disabling a modern vehicle with software is easy enough as the spark is controlled by the cars computer. So having a built-in feature to allow a remote actor to limit or disable the vehicle’s spark isn’t a big leap.
That’s not really how it works even when a new car goes into limp mode. Usually what happens isn’t that they limit the spark. It’s that the PCM (Power train Control Module) provides a ground to various systems (which are always powered via the battery/alternator charging system). When the PCM or ECM (Electronics Control Module that monitors network traffic in the vehicle) detects missing voltage from a monitored network sensor, or too much voltage from a monitored network sensor) it will put your vehicle into limp mode to prevent more damage that would occur if you keep driving. For instance if your camshaft sensor is providing a reading that would suggest it’s not spinning or is “stuck”. That could do internal damage to the engine if the vehicle continues to be driven.
But even so what they meant was that disabling a vehicle in motion is actually dangerous to the driver, any passengers and any other people driving or riding on the road.
Additionally, if the government can do it, that tech could be used by a bad actor for the same purpose and that’s just not going to fly.
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It will go in the scrap bin right next to the OnStar module.
…but wait you don’t love accidently talking to someone in Texas every time you go to turn your dome light off/on ?
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If the 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which was signed on Nov 15th, 2021 becomes law?
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Glad I bought a Subaru a couple years ago.
I see where they’re coming from, but like every good idea the government has had its going to be abused and mutated into Satan’s Christmas tree of a bill, and either be draconian or useless.
Also, this idea is shit for brains stupid lol
I sure hope I never get injured using my chainsaw out in the forest with no cell service. It’s going to be so awesome bleeding out in a truck that cuts to 5mph max because I’m too busy holding the tourniquet on my leg while I drive. That’s certainly NEVER happened. NEVER happens, to nobody, including my mother.
There’s no possible way this ever makes it to regulation. And most of you haven’t read the law, so don’t understand you’re being lied to. Read analysis here:
Looking at the other articles on the site, I count one antivaxx and another that claims the newly elected fascist in Argentina is a “Libertarian”.
Thanks for linking to a sane review.
I literally downvoted before reading anything besides the title. An unknown publication making an outlandish claim. Obvious rage bait. It’s sad to see so many of these nothing stories gain traction here. It’s so fucking obvious.
I think the analysis is correct in that the implementation will die in committee before ever making it to effect, not to mention the practical considerations of implementing this in the lighting-fast timeframe of 3 years. However, I cannot help but point out this part:
So far, not a kill switch, but some kind of technology to detect if you’re driving like a drunk person and disable the vehicle.
“Disable the vehicle” is literally what people mean when they talk about a “kill switch”. At best that’s an argument over semantics. The law mandates a thing that deliberately stop your car from functioning. That’s a kill switch.
It’s not a lie. There’s no malicious intent. It’s just not even wrong. It so fundamentally lacks understanding of the underlying bureaucracy, technology, product lifecycle, and surrounding politics politics that it amounts to nothing.
And the overall point still stands. We should be skeptical of these kinds of intrusions into our devices from the state. We should resist them as a default posture.
This is already a concerning power to hand to a government, which could cause issues regarding the right of freedom of movement. But even if we assume an ideal and responsible government that never misuses their powers, can we be sure such a backdoor would be secure enough not to be exploited by other parties?
No such thing as a secure backdoor
Just look at the Matrix
I’m sure we’ll never find out that the kill switch was disproportionately used on people of color.
Can’t wait to patch that out, should be as fun as that dumbshit auto-shutoff they have now.
I don’t see any problem with a system to detect drunk driving and bring the car to a stop. There is no right to drive a car while drunk or otherwise impaired. Inventing one by calling upon privacy also ignores that the cops can pull you over and give you a sobriety test if they have reason to anyway. In 2021, over 13,000 people in the US died from drunk drivers. They deserve protection.
While no one should be allowed to drunk-drive, I find it fundamentally fucked up for the government to have a device have to greenlight the use of your own vehicle. Even if they initially word it to be reactive, it would immediately implement the possibility. While it makes some sense for drunk driving, if it were available by default, it’d only be a matter of semmantics and suddenly your car is a large paper weight simply because you didn’t renew the registration before-hand.
Doesn’t the government already greenlight vehicle usage with the drivers license?
You can drive without one. If there is an emergency you can escape a fucking forest fire for example.
“Man dies after forest fire engulfs home; couldn’t outrun flames and car was remotely disabled due to overdue registration; ‘Hand were tied’ says DMV”
Fair enough, didn’t want to appear pro stupid car lock mechanism. I think it would be beneficial to to limit drunk driving as much as possible, but but not in a way that overcomplicates driving and makes it more dangerous.
Had to laugh at ‘Hands were tied’ though lol, sounds too realistic
If you’re only using your car on public roads it technically doesn’t matter anyway(s). Public roads and the jurisdiction of public traffic laws are absolute and you can be stopped or dealt with pretty easily since thats the language of everything (“public roads”)
Your entire argument forgets one thing. Presumed innocence. You are right. You can’t drive a car if you’re convicted of driving intoxicated. However, anything prior to that conviction is an allegation. You can’t take away peoples rights and privileges based on allegations, including forcefully stopping their car under the suspicion of intoxicated driving. There is a reason they must pull you over first and conduct the test.
Once suspicions of their intoxication are confirmed people are still only arrested for being allegedly intoxicated. That’s why those vehicular impairment devices are only installed under court order and after a conviction.
To reemphasize what others have said, I’m sorry but I’m not giving the government access to my private property let alone the fucking police. Are you out of your god damn mind?
Have you ever heard of undue search and seizure? What would be the legal framework required in order to forcefully stop someone’s car via kill switch? Lastly, what stops s government official from just poking the red button because a cutie with too little clothing darted on by and they wanted to chat her up for a few minutes?
The entire thing is rife with legal implications and I’m only scratching the surface with this comment. This is one of those “good initiative bad judgment” ideas.
You’re right about the undue search and seizure. For me, it isn’t the politicians I fear in this hypothetical scenario. I fear the corporations and police that would be the case-by-case adjudicators.
Driver entitlement episode 456: “what do you mean my death machine needs to have a remote kill switch???”
Insane.
Listen I get that there are disadvantages but you “fuckcars” people need to chill
Car accidents cause about double the number of deaths in America as homicide, but no one ever says “you need to chill about violent crime.” Cars cause another 1.5 million injuries on top of that. Cars contribute around 30% of the CO2 pollution in America, but only the truly insane would say people need to “chill” about global warming.
Our entire public infrastructure was gutted, such that we went from a pioneer in public transportation to basically only being able to use cars because oil companies and car manufacturers wanted it that way. We have the least efficient, most expensive, most polluting, most stressful form of travel but it’s totally okay you guys because some people really like having a big truck that they can put truck nuts on and drive to the office in and it would be an infringement on their rights if we used taxes to build a fucking monorail or something.
You know, I’m not the biggest fan of personal vehicles, but if you want to talk about “death machines”, you might also spare some thoughts towards police brutality and whether cops can really be trusted to hijack people’s vehicles at will.
…nevermind that such a backdoor could be exploited by other parties also.
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