Context: this is a legit screenshot I took on my workplace around 1.5 years ago. Hopefully it’s been patched by now? Completely ridiculous behavior
Badly shielded USB3 causes RF leaks at 2.4GHz. use 5Ghz WiFi or better shielded devices.
Charging from the left side isn’t all that either, some macbook pro models actually become slower due to thermal throttling because charging from the left creates heat closer to the CPU. Resulting in a significant CPU slowdown.
This is the answer.
Some early wifi routers with USB ports on them had the same issue.
Imagine buying a computer with only two ports.
Woman came to give a presentation at work without an hdmi port in her laptop.
Was dumbfounded at lack of ports. Thought only apple was this closed but it was a cheapo windows
Apple users have to jump through so many hoops just to look down on everyone else
Seriously. I have a co-worker that tries to convert everyone to use apple products. The iPad I have from work needs to have a battery charged to x% before you can turn it on, no matter if a charger is plugged in.
Oh, you want to change the default search engine in Safari? Here, pick one out of this list or gtfo. You want to use add-ons in Firefox? Ha! They’re not certified, so there’s no native expansion shop on iOS.
Thanks, I like to customize my own OS and not be bullied into what I’m allowed to do with it.
I know nobody asked, but the reputation Macs have amongst IT industry professionals is insanely annoying to me. I guess it’s a difference between what I like in a laptop versus what other people like in them.
I’ve seen developers working for FAANGs unironically praise the M1 Macbooks as work machines. And I’m just sitting here, like…why? You are locked into an inferior operating system that becomes progressively more janky the deeper you get into its configuration. I have one and the damn thing has an option to change the “modifier key” for the fucking mouse, so you can change your mouse’s modifier key to its ctrl or shift key, apparently. Y’know, in case your standard 20 dollar Logitech wired mouse, like the one I’m using, has shift and modifier keys. Just super useful /s. It randomly had slack muted after installing it, so I could never get message notifications until I figured out what to alter after digging through the guts of its terrible system configuration UI. It can’t remember the order of attached displays and half the time I have to rearrange them after resuming it from hibernation. If you want to do basic window manager things, like press the meta key (also referred to as the windows key on non-macbooks) + direction arrow to have a window snap to a quadrant of your screen, you have to install a 3rd party application with Homebrew. Its keyboard is that weird, unresponsive, flat form factor that makes it a nightmare to actually use as a portable device. With any luck you don’t have to compile anything for it, because…you probably won’t be able to. Perhaps most annoying is the fact that, even if you want to use it as a full desktop replacement and plug in 3 monitors with the same resolution into it at a desk (most Macs have at least passable 3rd party dock support), the Mac just won’t let you. It only lets you plug in 2 and it duplicates one of those two onto the 3rd one. If you want to plug in 3, you technically can: you just have to download 3rd party displaylink drivers, which, knowing Apple, probably won’t fucking work and might permanently fuck up your display.
I get that it’s a relatively powerful computer for the ludicrous amount of battery life it gives you, but that’s purely because it’s an extremely optimized ARM based processor that’s only designed to work with this specific operating system. I also get that machines running Linux also have their own problems, but you aren’t paying for whatever Linux distro you’re running (probably) and you also have the power to change things with a little bit of effort. If I’m buying a machine like an M1, where the OS is presumably part of the whole “package,” it should just work well out of the box.
Beyond those complaints, it’s got good speakers and never produces any heat. Honestly, the only good things about the machines are those hardware elements: the speakers, battery life, and lack of heat. If they could run linux and had decent keyboards, I might like them. But Apple is practically an antonym for FOSS at this point. I also have a Thinkpad X1 Carbon, which is physically a worse machine: it gets hot, has a fraction of the battery life, etc. But you can install any Linux distro (that isn’t Nix based, sadly) to it without issue and its keyboard makes it actually tolerable to code on for extended periods. I wonder if the people that really like the M1s like them because it’s the laptop equivalent of an iPhone.
It never produces heat. Until it does and my word does it. I’ve been getting the slack issues and display issues as well. Also found out today the provided calendar hasn’t actually been sending off my invite responses to anyone and got called in for not letting people know which meetings I was attending.
For your next laptop you should try the framework and laptop, theyre very cool
The vast majority of comments here complaining about Mac and macOS specifically seem to stem from really, really not understanding much about them. This comment is unfortunately not any different.
I’ve seen developers working for FAANGs unironically praise the M1 Macbooks as work machines.
The FAANG companies that fight tooth and nail to hire the best people who can basically work wherever they want because of their skill like Macs? Surely, they’re the dumb ones.
I have one and the damn thing has an option to change the “modifier key” for the fucking mouse
Originally, and for quite a while (probably early 2000’s) Macs shipped with a one button mouse, and there was no concept of a “right-click.” Originally, they were pretty dogmatic that the OS should be simple enough that one button was enough. You shouldn’t need to hide functionality in a context menu, it should be available through the standard UI. Eventually, that lost out, but they decided they wanted to make context menus* (or other “right-click” actions) a power user feature, rather than a default. So the decided to make it make sense for all of the machines that had always shipped with one button mice, you could hold ctrl and then click an item and you’d get the context menu. For decades now, they support right click, but if you built up years of muscle memory around ctrl+clicking instead, you still can.
like press the meta key
You like the meta key? Probably better thank Apple. Apple has had a “meta” key basically forever, only it’s been called “command.” I’m old enough to remember when more manufacturers started to add their own meta keys. If you go grab an older keyboard, you’ll probably find they also have a “context menu” button, which is basically a “right-click” and you almost def won’t find one now.
you want to do basic window manager things
Lots of people in this thread seem to really, really like being able to window snap, which I kind of get but also generally disagree with. macOS (again, going back a thousand years) has a different philosophy when it comes to managing windows. On [MS] Windows, pretty much all software aims for full screen, and users def do the same. Window snapping now means you have a convenient way to see 2 whole things. If you really, really want window snapping similar to how MS does it, there are a hojillion ways to accomplish this with very simple app installs. macOS has instead tried to make it so that you can manage multiple apps/windows easily without full screen, going back to tiny, tiny screens.
But let’s talk about “basic window manager things” for a sec. Windows has easily, and I mean easily had the worst window management generally for like 2 decades. Windows 10 and Windows 11 help catch up to things I switched off of Windows and to Linux for in like, 2004. Expose, or “Task View” as it’s now called in Windows started in macOS, and was adopted in Linux in the mid 2000’s. Not until Windows 10, and not even the first version, do we get that. Ditto for virtual desktops. In Windows, I can press alt-tab and switch between any open app. In macOS, I can press cmd+tab and switch between any open app, but I can also press cmd-` and switch between an app’s windows. In Windows, I can minimize windows to the task bar just as I can in macOS. However, I can also just choose to hide all app windows, or hide all windows except the app I’m looking at. And on macOS, I can use hot corners (which Windows barely touches with its “show desktop” hotcorner, sort of) which I can configure however I want. I can throw my mouse in any corner of the screen and get more “basic window manager things” than exist on Windows.
Its keyboard is that weird, unresponsive, flat form factor that makes it a nightmare to actually use as a portable device
If you have one the bad butterfly keyboards, yes. If not, this is nonsense. All laptop keyboards are bad, mac versions (with the very large caveat that the butterfly keyboards were insanely stupid/bad) are generally better.
I get that it’s a relatively powerful computer for the ludicrous amount of battery life it gives you, but that’s purely because it’s an extremely optimized ARM based processor that’s only designed to work with this specific operating system.
How is this supposed to be a negative? If we zoom out a little, this comment might as well be “oh sure, you can get your fancy graphic effects when you use a, what did you call it? graphics processing unit?” And even then, this is still not really accurately understanding why Apple has absolutely dominated CPU in mobile, and then is crushing in the class of laptop/desktop processors it competes in.**
But Apple is practically an antonym for FOSS at this point.
Aside from darwin, the kernel macOS runs on, Webkit, the browser engine that Chrome forked from, or passkeys, the thing that might replace passwords, you’re still really wrong.
Beyond those complaints, it’s got good speakers and never produces any heat. Honestly, the only good things about the machines are those hardware elements: the speakers, battery life, and lack of heat.
How about screens? Trackpad? Physical material, etc?
I also have a Thinkpad X1 Carbon, which is physically a worse machine: it gets hot, has a fraction of the battery life, etc.
“I can get vastly less done, and it’s going to be more uncomfortable the entire time.”
I wonder if the people that really like the M1s like them because it’s the laptop equivalent of an iPhone.
Lots of misunderstanding here, but I’m already a phone book in.
* really, they probably never would have added right clicks, but as more software adopted right click actions, especially cross platform stuff like Adobe software, they pretty much had to.
** they’ve basically ceded the extreme high end. If you really want the most performant CPU and power\heat aren’t a concern, it’s not Apple.This is a perfect example of corporate apologia combined with not really understanding the sentiment to which you are replying. Hell, I even started my rant by saying “I guess it’s a difference between what I like in a laptop versus what other people like in them.” Also there is something really pathetic about being defensive of a corporate product about which another person has elements that they find annoying or unintuitive. Nothing you have said counters any factual observation about the behavior of the system and can be effectively dismissed on the basis that the foundational premise of every statement is “well no system is perfect.” Yeah, there are flaws with everything. I happen to dislike the specific flaws with Mac more than I dislike the specific flaws of most Linux distros or Windows. Windows largely gets a pass on the basis that I’m not forced to use it for work or any kind of power user shit. I’m expected to do that with a Mac, which amplifies the amount of negative feelings I have towards it. Familiarity breeds contempt. This is not a new facet of reality only I’ve discovered, hopefully. If I had to work on a Windows machine fulltime I’d probably hate it about as much as I do the Mac. But then again, it would be kind of weird to come into a thread specifically about Macs and start ranting about Windows sucking. Which is what you’re doing in a lot of this reply. So…yeah, maybe go outside and touch some grass because somebody doesn’t like your favorite OS and elected to comment in a thread where that was the topic of discussion.
That said, a few specific points:
Lots of people in this thread seem to really, really like being able to window snap, which I kind of get but also generally disagree with
You can’t disagree with people liking something. You can dislike something yourself, but someone else enjoying a particular feature is super weird and comes across as bizarrely authoritative.
All laptop keyboards are bad
There’s not even an argument to make here. You’re just wrong. Comparative to the Macs, there are other manufacturers that produce far better quality keyboards than those found on pretty much any Macbook.
How is this supposed to be a negative?
It’s because the battery quality is an extension of having a very specific operating system running on a very specific processor. It’s an incredibly tight coupling of software and hardware. Yes, it’s highly optimized, but the optimization comes at the cost of having to use their shitty operating system. Linux will run on almost anything. You don’t get the level of efficiency, maybe, but you do have control. I value control over the things I own and use over virtually everything else.
Aside from darwin, the kernel macOS runs on, Webkit, the browser engine that Chrome forked from, or passkeys, the thing that might replace passwords, you’re still really wrong.
Well, first of all, darwin is based on FreeBSD, which was already open source, so, not like they blazed new trails there. That said, let’s ignore Apple’s walled garden ecosystem and their longstanding opposition to right to repair, which they only caved on recently because of pending legislation. Or the fact that Apple hardware is effectively non-modifiable after purchase by design. You mentioned something about graphics cards. You know what’s neat about graphics cards? The ones that aren’t integrated can be replaced or changed. Good luck changing something yourself in a fucking Mac. There’s also a lot of open source projects that have been restricted from the App store because open source licenses are generally incompatible with App Store TOS. And, while Darwin might be open source, a ton of components for iOS and their iPadOS are not. And before you say, “well, what about Microsoft, huuuuuuuh?” Yeah, they suck too. Multiple, different things can be bad for the same reason.
How about screens? Trackpad? Physical material, etc?
Screens are overly glossy for my taste. Trackpad quality is average, although the physical buttons for the trackpad have this weird “thocky” response that makes them feel as cheap and shitty as their awful keyboard. Physical material is also average. These are things I left out because I personally don’t care about them very much.
“I can get vastly less done, and it’s going to be more uncomfortable the entire time.”
I guess you ignored the part where I said good things that I like about that specific device which allows me to be more productive on it than on my Mac. Or is your entire post purely an exercise in misrepresentation and intellectual dishonesty? Which would be appropriate for something written in praise of Apple products.
You can install Linux on Apple Silicon Macs. Check out Asahi Linux.
Not trying to be rude, but this is terrible advice. Asahi Linux is nowhere near ready for use on a work computer.
Telling someone to check something out isn’t the same as saying they should use it. You were stating falsehoods that paint Apple products in a bad light.
It’s also quite usable. The reason it’s in beta is because certain features don’t work.
you kinda answered your own question in this rant. once theres a comparable alternative a lot of people will naturally move to that. though a lot of people still will want a half bitten fruit on their device
Maybe you were holding it wrong
Oh, I forgot about that one! Apple are full of shit. Also “it’s not a bug, it’s a feature” is a classic.
Whoops, it seems the last one isn’t from Apple, I guess I’ve just seen it used about their products so many times I assumed it originated from them…sorry about that. I shouldn’t go around the internet assuming things.
The Internet has decided you are wrong and have charged you with the punishment of death. Have a nice day!
Rude.
/s
Apple: “You’re not using your mac how we designed it to. Please pay $4000 more to use the right side usb-c without issues”.
I’m amazed at how many professionals use Macs because Apple seems to hate power users. I had to use a Mac briefly recently and was amazed to find they still don’t have window snapping.
It also had no idea what to do with my monitor, couldn’t even detect the correct resolution. I’m guessing if I had bought a $3000 Apple monitor it would have worked immediately. But had to dive into “advanced settings” just to set the correct resolution.
check out Rectangles my dude (obviously doesn’t come with it but in case you’re looking)
So how are you supposed to use multiple windows on it? Are there any alternativees for that?
As wraithcoop suggested, you can install additional software like rectangle to do the job. But why is that necessary in 2023? Window snapping has existed forever on Linux DEs and Windows since Vista.
Windows snapping. I use Spectable. It’s a free open sourced software.
The point isnt about having a Foss solution, but that this is an absolute basic thing that the OS lacks.
True that. Coming from Windows, I really don’t understand why this feature isn’t built into Mac. Most Linux distros have this feature.
Apple power users are people who actually want to use Linux but think it’s bad (except for audio professionals because Macs actually have a monopoly on audio latency/pipelining)
they hate power users less than Microsoft
Yeah, no, as a power user mac is actively fucking painful to work around. Anything beyond skin deep configurations require going through seven layers of shitty menus, and even then a lot of shit you have to with command line, and don’t even get me fuckin started on that trash.
How can a premium product have the worst goddamn command line in the industry? Jfc MSDOS is more goddamn useful.
My point is, if you want brain dead simple, works ever time, but only if you do it the exact specific way intended, go for Mac… but keep that bullshit off of an enterprise network.
If you want to do literally anything that’s technically involved and need your system to more or less work out of the box? Windows reigns supreme.
You want to make something work exactly the way you want, using whatever hardware you want, and have complete and total control over your functionality and information? Linux all the way.
The brain dead windows hate is stupid. It’s an adequate OS for what it was originally made to do- run information infrastructure for businesses. Don’t be retarded.
I have the complete opposite feeling. The more I have to use windows the more irritated I am at it. It’s bloody irritating.
It has window snapping; sure that’s nice, but the default window snapping isn’t that useful for a power user and gets in the way of better window snapping from power toys. On the Mac I also have a third party (better touch tools) app to get custom snap zones that is better than even power toys fancy zones.
But the basic window snapping ends up irritating me more often than it’s useful. I’ll have a window that is on the left side and not half screen. I use window left, and instead of snapping to half it “helpfully” switches monitors.
Also I use multiple desktops. Windows couples all monitor desktops together. I can’t switch just one desktop. On a Mac I can swipe between individual desktops on each screen. This is way more useful to me.
Windows also has a better clipboard manager. But it’s to basic to be useful for me. Only saves 10 things. I install a manager that saves 1000s.
Windows power shell is awful. And worse is googling for how to do anything with a “command line” on Windows because you have to not only figure out what command line they mean but also what damn version.
I’ve had very little trouble switching between Linux and Mac with home brew installed.
Also Windows has a wierd file system. If I use the keyboard command to make a link to a folder it makes a bloody shortcut which a lot of programs ignore.
So instead I get to google what the windows equivalent is of a hard link and how to make one. It’s a junction link and you use the command line. Yay. The command line isnt nearly as helpful. It’s very different from Linux. So very little transfers.
And it doesn’t have history between sessions. “Power” doesn’t have history between sessions.
Mac at least has the decency to use a decent shell in zsh. Zsh is fantastic.
Also on the file system. When you get a select file for upload dialog, if you drag a file you already found in a file window to the dialog, it MOVES the file! Why! No instead you should apparently find the file again in the dialog or copy and paste the path which is way more steps.
On Mac I just drag a file to the select dialog and it auto switches to the location and selects the file. The thing I wanted to do.
Have you seen the whole situation with settings vs control panel? That’s damn infuriating especially for power users.
Also you think macOS consoles are bad compared to Windows? Windows can’t even decide on one command line or shell language.
Honestly it feels like neither macOS or Windows was designed properly for power users. At least Microsoft tries I guess.
Listen to my brother… your settings menus are an illusion. All can and will be accomplished through power shell and planning. Some things are easier done with old school command line, but powershell is an amazingly powerful tool designed for a different audience. There are entire businesses built around automation tools that literally just write powershell scripts.
That settings menu? It’s a shi(tty)ny coat of paint, but I’m not using the settings menus for what I need to do. I’ll open the menu with the run console, you can access most admin tools by right clicking the start menu.
I’m probably biased because of my career but I have a burning hatred for macs, they do not belong in a business environment, get that shit away from me.
Interesting, I work with both at my job and my main take is:
-
CLI of Mac is superior to me and least confusing, plus has it’s whole CLI experience working correctly for a long time, but Windows did a bit of a catch-up (still not on par IMO and too many ways of working)
-
The GUI settings are more advanced on Windows, but the new/old interface are a cluster fuck; I don’t trust the interaction between them
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Windows has more compatibility options with hardware/software, if you dig deep enough you can make things work most of the times
-
The general MacOS experience (from starting your computer, opening apps, using the CLI) performs better, Windows feels a bit more sluggish/bloated to me
I do like the steps that Microsoft takes with things like Visual Studio Code and .NET of aiming cross-platform. I have in no way any hatred for Microsoft and I think both operating systems have their pros and cons. They are both fine to work with.
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Laughs in framework with four identical USB-C ports that can do anything
That’s actually not true, and framework has similar issues. There was vampire power drains from certain mix and match options with HDMI and USB-C ports.
https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-high-battery-drain-during-suspend/3736
On the AMD framework, the upper right and left USB-C ports are slightly different from the lower ports
https://community.frame.work/t/usb4-and-thunderbolt-on-amd/30771
I love my framework laptop, but we shouldn’t pretend that they are free from quirks that plague other brands.
Fascinating. Good to know…
Not to talk shit about Mac users, but in this day and age with how advanced technology is, you have to be insane to buy a Mac. What kills it for me is that nothing is upgradeable on the damn thing, like zero. If your internal drive dies, you’re SOL. And if I got this correctly, they now have the bios OS on the same drive, the Internal. So, you won’t even be able to get to your bios. You won’t be able to install the OS on external hard drive in case you needed to. This is insane and I can never understand why anyone would buy into this shit.
Mac users, and actually most laptop users, don’t give a shit about the things you mention. They buy it, use it for some 2-5 years, then sell it and get a new model. Upgrading hardware is way too complicated for most people. They don’t know or care what a BIOS is. It comes with the OS installed and that’s the only thing they would ever want. Turn it on, use Safari, outlook, and office 365, maybe some tool like Photoshop/Ableton/etc, that’s it.
I mean iPhones are the same right? They lock down everything so it’s idiot proof and they control the environment exactly so they can maximise the smoothness of the experience.
I have to use an apple phone for work and it’s sorta annoying to use. Like sure it’s fast and snappy but there’s no back button and it isn’t as intuitive as Apple users want you to believe it is.
It’s just what people are used to. I find a few stuff annoying when I use my android phone for work. Also, you can swipe left anywhere to go back. Didn’t feel the need for a button
Ah good to know. Might need to look at the tutorial menus or something.
Swiping can be hard for a 90 year old with arthritis or anyone with a lot of other physical disabilities. For all the work Apple has put into marketing the iPhone as the accessible option, I’d rather give great grandpa an android in 2023.
Lots of androids already have an accessibility setting to make things easier too. Gets rid of settings and lesser used options on screen, makes things nice and big and simplifies the UI so it has a few things that older people might want/use.
I couldn’t imagine buying any laptop other than a Mac because the performance to battery life ratio on everything else is awful. Plus if you want a UNIX system, it’s an easy buy.
After owning an Apple ARM laptop I’d never go back to anything else.
But is that an Apple thing or an ARM thing?
the performance to battery life ratio on everything else is awful
You clearly haven’t used Debian.
I’ve used a number of different Linux distros (including Debian) on laptops over the years. Although most recently my XPS 15 was running Arch.
I have an M1 Macbook Air (under half price secondhand thanks to a superficial dent on a corner) and while I agree I love having such powerful hardware that sips battery so sparingly, MacOS can go eat a whole bag of stale dicks. Homebrew makes it… tolerable, but I’m holding out hope for that new Qualcomm ARM laptop - the recent benchmarks beat Apple’s chips handily.
What do you hate about macOS? From my perspective, it beats out Windows in ease of use, performance, likelihood not to break, and being *NIX; and it beats out Linux by having things working out of the box without needing to spend a decade tinkering just to get things almost working right.
I use Windows for gaming (and work, unfortunately), Mac for general computing and programming, and Linux for servers and vms.
MacBook USB-C can be goofy. I know for restoring firmware (which Apple refers to as “reviving”), on some models, you have to use a very specific port
“We conform to the open standard, but only to the parts that we like”
I can’t remember which model it was, but wasn’t there a MacBook Pro that had 4 USB-C ports, only two of which supported Thunderbolt? Want to connect your monitor to the right side of the machine? Well… tough shit, I guess.
No, I believe it had to do with charging. Charging a Macbook through the wrong part caused some kind of chip to misbehave (overheat, perhaps?) and it would cause issues for the nearby port. You couldn’t charge it quickly through that port either.
“Luckily”, the early ARM Macbooks couldn’t drive more than a single screen anyway (Apple’s I/O die just couldn’t handle two of their own extreme res screens so they disabled the feature, Linux on the same machine could run two normal screens just fine), so you weren’t able to run into too much trouble with it.
Yea… I hate the shit out of M$FT but I’m still never going to buy a fucking Mac.
Somewhat tangential, but USB-C docking stations, as useful as it is to have everything in one cable, it can also be annoying.
At the office, I often just want to charge my laptop with them, but they also give me a wired internet connection, which, thanks to corporate networking shitfuckery, doesn’t work. So, every time I plug in, I have to disable that wired connection.
Also, recently a colleague had problems getting her headset working when she was plugged into certain docks, ultimately due to a bug in the OS.
Like, alright, that should be fixed in the OS, but that USB-C dock doesn’t even have a speaker attached to it. It’s completely useless that it shows up as an audio device.
And even after we found a workaround to fix her headset, she will now have to switch over her audio device every time she plugs into a dock.So, basically it’s now one step to plug in the cable, but potentially multiple steps to undo half of what you unwillingly plugged in…
Get a condom
My PC went through a phase of switching off when you accessed the network share with my pictures on it.
I could access it locally. I could use other network shares.
It stopped doing that when I swapped the PSU.
Fuck computers, I want to live in a cave.
Did you try swapping the cables first?
