As always EFF is 100% right. This is a hard but important line to draw in the sand. Laws surrounding networks should be enforced “at the edges” not in the middle. Your ISP is a router, all dozen hops between your computer and the website you are visiting are routers, their job is to route, not filter. If some internet cable routes through a country with different laws, you want them enforcing their weird laws on the wire about how you can’t insult their king? Of course not.
Or better yet, as is happening in this article, you want fucking comcast (or some other isp), the company that fucks you with their monopoly power at every possible opportunity, to be the arbiter of what is acceptable content and what is not? Fuck them. Leave that to the legislative process and courts.
If what you or the website is doing is illegal in the jurisdiction it is located, let local law enforcement handle it. They can imprison you or the website operator, that is where the crime is happening, the crime is not happening because packets are flowing from one end to the other.
This one is a tough nut to crack, because generally I agree, but holy fucking shit we’re talking about Kiwi Farms here.
There is nothing not one fucking thing that place produces that isn’t a garbage fire of harassment, abuse, and violence.
Usually the EFF is spot on, but I find their argument in this case pretty weak. While I think there are better ways to handle this as well than straight censorship, like give me a break, EFF, no one is doing anything about these scumfucks. I would give one shit about such an argument if I felt there was anything that would happen to stop this, but I’m pretty fucksure it won’t. If I felt like law enforcement was closing in and as was going to charge everyone involved in the site under some sort of gang-harassment law (which probably doesn’t even exist), then maybe this argument would hold weight. But I don’t feel like that, and I feel like the more people make weak arguments for horrendous places like this, more vulnerable people will continue to suffer Kiwi Farms abuse, harassment, and violence.
To put it even more simply: When a person uses a room in a house to engage in illegal or just terrible activity, we don’t call on the electric company to cut off the light and heat to the entire house, or the post office to stop delivering mail. We know that this will backfire in the long run. Instead, we go after the bad guys themselves and hold them accountable.
Who the fuck is actually doing that, EFF?? You’re basically arguing for endless abuse from these fucks because the justice system doesn’t give one fucking shit about what they’re doing because the justice system doesn’t generally give a fuck about vulnerable people.
That’s what must happen here. The cops and the courts should be working to protect the victims of KF and go after the perpetrators with every legal tool at their disposal. We should be giving them the resources and societal mandate to do so. Solid enforcement of existing laws is something that has been sorely lacking for harassment and abuse online, and it’s one of the reasons people turn to censorship strategies. Finally, we should enact strong data privacy laws that target, among others, the data brokers whose services help enable doxxing.
- ACAB, the cops are corrupt and you can’t trust them.
- The courts are corrupt and you can’t trust them.
- We’re living in a hell-hole of a gerontocracy where government can’t pass a fucking bill to end Daylight Savings time, and you expect them to do something about policing this when we can’t even get cops to do their fucking jobs without murdering innocent citizens in the process? Get the fuck out of here, EFF, you’re a joke now.
Your argument really sucks. You don’t trust the courts or law enforcement to uphold laws, but you’re willing to allow ISP’s, like Comcast (the most hated company in the US), to regulate what speech can be used online? That’s absolute madness and defies all logic.
but you’re willing to allow ISP’s, like Comcast (the most hated company in the US), to regulate what speech can be used online?
Where did I advocate for that? This is a small ISP, and I am in no way arguing that what they’re doing is the best solution. What I am arguing is that there is no political movement to create laws to police this, especially not an international political movement, since not all Kiwi Farms users are from the US. I’m saying that the EFF’s argument is that we should expect no one to do anything, and let them keep ruining people’s lives, because our solutions for stopping this mess currently aren’t perfect. It’s one of those “don’t let perfect be the enemy of good” situations. I am in no way endorsing what the ISP has done, but I am questioning an argument to argue for laws to handle this when we can’t even seem to get our politicians to do anything, especially when it comes to policing some of the worst of our society. Republicans claim guns aren’t the problem, mental health is, but they also want to take away all the money for support and mental health services, and they refuse to see the connection between the violent vitriol they spew about political opponents and lone-wolf terrorists, like dude, we have an entire political party not operating in good faith and who is happy to let this kind of shit keep happening. The idea that we just have to sit by idly and twiddle our thumbs while they ruin lives because the solutions aren’t great is a fucking farce.
It really is arguing “We have to let these vicious, fascist abusers to run rampant, because otherwise their fascist political representatives or fascist business owners might use the legalism of fascism to justify them doing it even worse.” Like dude, hate to break it to you, at this point, they’re gonna do that whether we fight back or not.
I don’t think it is fair to characterize their position as “let these guys run rampant”. The fact someone points out something that is unacceptable, does not automatically make them responsible for downstream effects and the solutions to these problems.
While I wholeheartedly agree these people (the online abusers) should be dealth with and the behaviour should have consequences.
ISPs and other commercial entities should either: curate the content and be liable for the content… or stfu and leave it to a government entity.
I favor the latter, realizing that this would require the entity to have proper funding.
