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Because even though they feel the need to seek physical intimacy from someone else, they still want the stability and safety a relationship brings.
Is the answer. Cheating is a mechanism to both have their cake, and eat it.
Very nice analogy.
I’ve always hated this analogy. Why can’t I buy a cake and eat it?
You can either possess a cake or consume it. Consuming the pastry means you no longer have it.
I cannot believe I spent my whole life not grasping this phrase. Thank you. I’m embarrassed how much my mind just expanded.
There are a lot of clichés that may not make a lot of sense at face value. I’ve found some actually go a lot deeper than you expect, or may actually apply on multiple levels. Common wisdom often hits harder than I initially realized as I’ve gotten older…
Edit: and as you comment shows, I’ve also been guilty of straight-up misinterpreting the meanings as well. Literally just the other day i realized that Lifesavers™ candy are supposed to be little life preservers, as one would have on a boat. For whatever reason, i thought they were just making some grandiose claim as brands often like to do… Sometimes our first impressions become our impressions until correction which may not take place for a long time
I’ve only had this phrase explained to me recently, and since then I can’t help but think it would make more sense if it was told the other way around; such as “you can’t eat your cake and have it too”.
Six in one half dozen in the other
Or if it had originally been rendered as, “you can’t keep your cake and eat it, too!”
No problem, chief 👍
The problem is, that is the cake’s sole purpose. If it isn’t consumed it doesn’t mature and yield more cake. The analogy is a well known idiom, but it sounds a bit short when you think about it.
I think it’s more about restraint versus instant gratification. When people have cake it’s usually meant to be shared in some kind of party, so if you go ahead and eat the cake alone you miss out on the sharing which could be said to be the cakes original purpose.
It’s a reference to a very pretty cake. Imagine a wedding cake on display at the wedding, before the bride and groom cut into it. They want to keep the cake pristine so it can stay on display. But that means they can’t eat it, because eating it would destroy the art. They also want to eat it, because it’s cake. They want to have their cake (to display) and eat it too.
I don’t understand why society demonizes that (the multiple people thing, not the lack of communication). If that’s what’s best for my partner, who am I to stop them? What does exclusivity even get me besides limiting my jealousy?
Polyamoury is cool. Cheating is not cool.
That’s all it comes down to - consent
If someone needs multiple partners in their life to feel fulfilled, then wonderful, but they just have to make sure that everyone involved is fine with that before they get into the situation.
Polyamory is very cool for people who are wired for it. A whole lot of people aren’t, and that’s okay. And some people could be wired for it, but they have a whole lot of self-work to do before they’ll practice it well.
It works for me because I know that I never again want to presume any semblance of control or authority over any partner’s absolute right to seek out joy and fulfillment by forming however many ethical and consensual relationships they wish, of whatever style they wish, with whomever they wish, for as long as they wish, and I insist upon the same right for myself.
Jealousy is just not an emotion I experience. Envy, yes…envy being wanting what someone else has. When I see a partner of mine having a particular dynamic with another partner that I want to have with them, I feel envy. But not jealousy, which is not wanting someone else to have something of yours. That is, I don’t feel anxiety about their other partner “stealing them away from me.” Anything lacking between me and a partner has nothing to do with anyone else not in our relationship; if I feel something is missing between us or want things to be a certain way, it is incumbent upon me to speak up, and vice versa. Outside of our relationship, I cheer my partners on in their other connections because love is fucking amazing, man!
Thank you for spelling out my feelings. I’ve been struggling to process them because I haven’t seen any prior art.
In most cultures betraying contracts is usually considered bad, and relationships are basically intimate and emotional contracts. Trust is important even in business contracts, but in interpersonal ones its ESSENTIAL. If you entered into a polyamorous relationship, cool, thats the contract all parties agreed to, but if it wasnt specifically polyamorous its defaults to monogamous, and if you breach that trust, you’re probably not getting it back, and without trust ever having a healthy relationship again is probably gone
Granted I haven’t been around the dating pool very often but from what I’ve seen of cheating it’s rarely because the person is interested in polyamory but because they are simply normal and are trying to take advantage of one aspect of a relationship and fulfill their other desires with a different relationship for example taking advantage of husband A being rich and take advantage of husband B because he’s physically hot both are being taken advantaged of and husband A feels like he’s nothing more than a wallet and husband B feels like he’s nothing more than a dick on top of all that in the US the family court system very heavily favors women so if a girl is not 100% interested in a man it’s quite possible for the man to loose his entire lively hood I will admit this is a pretty male centric take but like I said i haven’t been paying much attention to dating world and i only have the perspective of a man
You missed my point. I’m saying that if you’re not specifically in a poly relationship, then non exclusivity is an immediate and automatic relationship contract breach in 99+% of cases. So yes, the cheater isn’t interested in Poly relationships in the vast majority of cases, but I was only bringing poly relationships up because they are a notable exception to non exclusivity being an immediate deal breaker
That makes sense but I think real reason is they get off doing something so terrible and evil and immoral. I get it.
Very black and white view of things. Bad history?
Cause I’m single and trying to pass this math test
Betraying the trust of your significant other ❌
Flagrant violation of academic integrity ✅
Because you need to be brave. Cheaters are cowards.
Remember that Beyonce song about the guy who cheated on her, but it’s cool because she wasn’t that into him and the other guy she’s been seeing is on his way over to replace him?
Sometimes everybody sucks at being in a relationship.
I really hope songs like this die out.
Kinda like how millennials killed Boomer Humor and the “I hate my wife” jokes, GenZ should kill songs about being a POS.
Shaggy with his “It Wasn’t Me” bullshit always rubbed me the wrong way. “My girl caught me fucking another woman.” Gaslight that bitch. “She was staring at me balls-deep in our neighbor on the floor of our bathroom.” Gaslight that bitch. “No, really, she was standing there watching us both, buck-ass naked. She never took her eyes off me. She knows what I look like. She knows our neighbor lady. I can’t believe I forgot that she has a key to my place, and she just walked in on us mid-coitus in the shower. I’m telling you, she’s not a fucking moron.” Gaslight that bitch.
People aren’t honest enough with each other and their own needs. Meanwhile we build other dependencies in long term relationships that have nothing to do with physical attraction, but are in most cases more important for all kinds of reasons.
Monogamy is the basis of a lot of unnecessary suffering because it’s resisting a very real need we continue to have even when our relationships become romantically stagnant. If we could all just be honest about it with our SOs without fear, and work together as we do anyway to maintain other commitments to each other, we could have a culture where there’s a lot more freedom to seek more intimacy and love in a way that isn’t dishonest, that isn’t “cheating”.
This is a very thoughtful and adult take.
I’ve never understood the concept of cheating in general. Basically what a person says is that they don’t want their significant other to experience any kind of intimacy or sexual relationships with any other person except for them for the rest of their lives.
I’ve always seen that as kinda unfair.
On the other hand if I’m in a relationship I typically don’t feel the need or desire to have relations with any other person even when the opportunity presents itself.
I have a friend though that is hopelessly in love with his girlfriend but regularly engages in sexual relations with other women. For him, it’s not an emotional activity, it’s just a physical one.
But you’re absolutely right open honest communication is absolutely key.
What makes cheating, cheating, is the betrayal of trust involved more than any specific acts of intimacy. The reality is in monogamous relationships merely falling for someone else, even without then knowing how you feel, already feels like a betrayal in your heart as a loyal partner who wishes you only had eyes for your SO and nobody else. Even porn in some cases is a betrayal. It’s a whole lot of unnecessary suffering not to acknowledge how the overwhelming majority of us won’t mentally thrive under these conditions. Therefore, setting expectations appropriate for your situation is key.
For my part, my SO understands that due in part to her relatively low sex drive and complete lack of initiative, certain needs of mine aren’t being met, and we’ve talked about it. I still love her deeply, and we have recently had a child, and I have every intention of meeting my obligations as a father and partner for the rest of my life. But, there’s a real possibility I could fall for someone else one day. I already have friends who I can say I love and would jump at the opportunity to be intimidate with should they show that kid of interest. What interests me though, are loving bonds, not hookups (I mean STD risks and all sorts. Ew). I want to be close with those who I sleep with, and i want them to know I love my partner and will always be there for her and our child. But, there’s space for them too, if they want in. Ideally, my partner likes and accepts them too - and the more close they are as friends (or even lovers too) the better.
In any case, that’s the dream I guess. Nothing has happened yet, and I find with a baby to look after, I’m in no rush, and certainly even with everything out in the open, it’s still too much drama to navigate at the moment. But if it does happen one day, at least it won’t result in a litany of lies that lead to guilt and suffering all around. At least, that’s the idea. I know it will never be quite that easy in reality, but it wouldn’t be life otherwise!
I feel kinda the same way… I don’t really like the whole “spontaneous sex” “one night stand” thing. I would prefer to get to know the person I’m going to be intimate with…
But again I have friends that would easily rail a woman in the bathroom of a bar and forget that even happened in a week.
I dunno…
My hope would be that the girls your friend rails behave and feel the same way and their respective partners if they have them know it too, or they’re single and that’s their thing. Maybe they don’t care about herpes, syphilis, chlamydia, or HIV either, because the thrill is worth the risk.
I know that isn’t even mostly the case and most people are behaving in ways they will later regret. But I do think there’s a culture in which we can be more honest and happy with having a bit more love in our lives.
It will take work and conversations like this are a small part of that I guess.
Wonder how it would work out if his gf reularly engaged in sex with anyone she wanted for a physical activity.
I don’t think the relationship would continue “working”.
You’re absolutely right. He would be devastated and react very negatively to his girlfriend “cheating” on him.
The double standard is the size of Texas.
I think that’s an unfair assessment based on negative stereotypes and only really serves to legitimatize the behavior you’re referring to.
I would be uncomfortable with my partner hooking up with a stranger. That’s a betrayal of our shared values, and creates risks for both of us (e.g. unwanted pregnancy, STDs, and general drama that could create a lot of unnecessary stress). I would rather know that she has fallen for someone we’re both know preferably, and who she loves and believes she can trust implicitly. I would still feel a healthy amount of jealousy, and be worried about thing going wrong, and her being hurt. But I would trust her judgment, and trust she won’t run away and leave me to raise our kid on my own. But yeah, the sex, and intimacy in this case, wouldn’t bother me too much.
Its not the most sensitive info here, but you shouldn’t censor things using non-opaque markings. It’s pretty trivial to throw the image in an editor, crank up the brightness, and see what’s behind the censor in this case. Just wanna let you know in case you happen to do this to some sensitive info
Why not just have two relationships?
Because that might require honest, open communication. And result in more satisfying relationships, wherein the parties to the relationships can actually get what they desire. Who wants that? /s. Hmm, is there a polyamory magazine on the Fediverse? I hadn’t looked… dang, I searched, yielded nada. Am I obligated to make one, now? We’re building a whole new social media. Each contributing as they will.
While it’s not my bag I very much believe people should love the way that makes them and all fully consenting members happy, but there’s not a lot of people that want to be part of something like that tbh. The polyamory itself I mean, not the sub. You should totally make a sub if there isn’t one
Gotcha covered, it’s a thing, now let’s see where we want to take it. https://kbin.run/m/Polyamory
Some people are monogamous and they are allowed to be in relationships that are satisfying and make them happy.
Then why cheat?
Because sometimes people would rather lie and sneak around than have an adult conversation about relationship expectations.
people would rather lie and sneak around
Well yeah. That’s a lot more fun then a conversation. And if you don’t care about your relationship anyways, why does it matter how you end it really? Might as well cheat
Edit: okay I’m being downvoted so I should mention that I know this “breakup strategy” isn’t for everyone but if you don’t mind permenantly burning a bridge, to me there is no harm in it. As long as the person you are cheating on them with knows what you are doing and is okay with it
If you don’t care about a relationship, the other person still might, and them being hurt should matter to you.
End the relationship since you don’t care about it anyways, to let the other person move on with the least lies and sense of betrayal, and then fuck everyone you wish.
Cheating isn’t a way to end a relationship, cheating is lying in order to keep it longer.
Cheating isn’t a way to end a relationship, cheating is lying in order to keep it longer.
Maybe that’s what it is for you
Maybe that’s what it is for you
This seems like the same logic those people who keep a relative’s corpse around for years to keep collecting their social security checks use…
That’s rather selfish. There is harm, but not to you. You’re okay with hurting other people for your own gain to avoid having one difficult conversation. I can only assume that you wouldn’t feel good if a partner treated you like that, so why do so to them? Either you have a general lack of empathy, lack introspective ability, or are just perfectly okay with the idea of being cheated on, and also the idea of someone else hurting because of your own actions. I’m fascinated, and also recommend you try consensual polyamory next time instead.
to me there is no harm in it.
Well yeah, but you could say the same about hitting a pedestrian with your car. To you, there’s no harm. But the person you’re cheating on, the person who’s trust you’ve violated, who’s time you’ve wasted, who feels stupid and used and humiliated after the relationship is over, there’s a lot of harm for them.
you could say the same about hitting a pedestrian with your car
Yeah, and I hit pedestrians with my car all the time!
Edit: for context I have the all-new f950 goliath
If you’re being sarcastic, neither do I. But I also cheat on my spouse as often as I hit pedestrians with my car.
Because they’re too selfish and gutless to end the relationship. Slme people need monogamy and some need multiple partners, they should be honest aboit that and avoid having relationships with those who aren’t compatible.
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Because that might require huge, boatloads of cash. And result in more satisfying prostitutes, wherein the parties to the relationships can actually get paid.
Cheating is for young people and mentally ill adults who haven’t fixed their impulse control
Adulting requires making partner and family the priority if you signed for it.
I think i disagree on being cheating is for young people. I know plenty of teenagers and young adults that are loyal to a fault.
Cheating is for those that aren’t being honest with themselves. Open relationships are fine for those whom understand and consent, but many people don’t do well in them. I don’t think I could ever do it but it is do to my own faults, not the practice.
Most cheating I think happens because someone hasn’t admitted to themselves that they aren’t happy enough in their relationship, or to cowardly to leave it for many a reason. Stability, whether financial or otherwise make staying in a relationship the “easy” option to many people.
Starting a new chapter of life is often hard. Social circles, work, living situations, vehicles, pets, and every other thing we forget about that has been a staple to us is often intertwined. Families as well. A lot of people stay together out of feeling it is better off than rocking the boat, many feeling like it would be devastating for their partner and like to think it is better for them long term as well. It doesn’t mean it is, or would be.
Relationships are just hard all around, but at some point we have to choose happiness over forcing shit to work.
Being afraid of failure has always been one of my flaws. Relationships are mostly all failures, even many that last till death.
~end random rant, it wasnt disagreeing with your comment by the way, apparently I just started typing
all fair points. there is deff a story behind every thing. i was going more for people need own their behavior. classic story is parents staying together when it was bad for kids.
i guess it could work somehow… but we all heard the stories where it was dragged out too long and hurt more.
There is a lot of stastics and info on this topic that might surprise you. I would encourage you to look into cheating rates by demographics. After that if you want any recommendations for books on subject, let me know.
Someone should have told my exwife this handy life hack. Would have saved me untold grief and depression. However, life can throw you a beautiful little surprise after a nightmare. If it wasn’t for that godawful woman, I never would have met the love of my life, the woman who I spent my whole life waiting for and now enjoying what it means to be happily married to my biggest crush, my best friend and waking up right next to her and our little family every morning. I can safely say it was all worth it. It could have been easier to get here but I’d do it again on legendary difficulty if I had to.
I have an baseless theory that people that first has sexual experience when they were young or in strict households and had to sneak around and hide their relationships are more likely to want to chest because the “thrill” of hiding the relationship and tabbooness of it reminds them of their formative sexaul experiences.
Aye, I think that’s why there’s so much step sister step brother porn as well
Yeah that’s because many Gen-Zers and late millennials have grown up in blended families. I bet many of them have fantasized about bangin an older step sister or step mom and even stepdads fantasize about banging an adult step daughter. Then they look up that kind of porn on the web. The algorithms will push that genre up in the rankings and then producer will follow the trend to appear at the top of those rankings.
Because being adult in age isn’t at all the same thing as being adult in maturity plus often people derive different benefits in different kinds of relationships so they want to keep both going (for example, somebody in his or her 40s happilly married with kids and yet getting excitement and sexual pleasure with a younger lover).
Also there are often huge social and financial implications to breaking up certain types of relationships or under certain conditions, but people might still be irresistibly drawn to something else, so they play a game to both sides not wanting the costs nor willing to run the risk of losing one to get the other.
It’s a mix of selfishness, immaturity, cowardice and people changing over time and discovering that the stable relationship they’re in doesn’t fit them (either anymore or they get to a point were they figure out it never trully did)
Yeah, I never understood it either. Either have an open relationship with consent, or communicate whatever needs you have that you want to fulfill by cheating properly, and accept that it may not work out if there is truly no way to meet them. I guess I can at least abstractly understand when it happens spur-of-the moment and under the influence of drugs/alcohol, but I still can’t properly put myself in those shoes.
Because the government pays you to be married
If you didn’t receive a healthy signing bonus for taking on your spouse, you got played for a fool. My bonus wasn’t crazy, but it bought us a modest house and meeting my 5-year performance goals covered our modest yacht.
Tax breaks like dependency deductions.
Yeah that should be step one not step two
Alimony
