The meaning of free will is exactly what people are discussing when they talk about whether or not it exists. What does and what doesn’t count as free will is what’s up for discussion.
I think free will as a concept is kinda stupid I’ve yet to talk to anyone who can actually give it a solid definition that isn’t something like “it means we can do what we want”
Either your decision is based on your personality, meaning it’s not free it’s a set calculation based on genetics and accumulated experience or it’s completely random meaning it’s not will at all
Can your free will be restricted in any way? Someone in prison has less agency than you or I, if that means his free will is restricted then we have more free will than he does. Therefore it exists.
His decision making options are restricted but those decisions are just as much a product of his past as the ones we make out of prison, he’s still acting entirely based on external and internal forces
I’ll put it this way, if you were to make an exact copy of our universe at this moment and watch both of them play out, he’d almost certainly make the exact same decision both times, same applies to someone out of prison
My point isn’t that people don’t practically have agency in the decisions they make, because they obviously do. We just don’t know all the forces that influence that decision and it’s not useful to think about that, so we call it free will
What is free will if not decision making? I understand people who say free will doesn’t exist as saying we don’t actually make decisions, it’s all decided for us by some other factor.
The ability to predict things does not negate free will. If I put a ball on a hill it will roll down because it has no free will, and I am able to predict that. If I offer you $20 or a punch in the face I am able to predict that you will choose the $20, but that doesn’t mean free will doesn’t exist because you could choose the punch in the face.
I am 100% sure any ball will roll down the hill 100% of the time. I am only 99.99% sure that any person will choose the $20 100% of the time, because humans have more free will than a ball.
The concept behind linear chaos is that the chaos is bound at one point. The theoretical cone of influence can only move in one direction and widen at a set rate. Kind of a mashup of chaos over time.
Yeah, chaos crops up in linear systems sometimes in unexpected places.
There are a couple of scientific papers on it, and at least one textbook. Even at that I’m not sure it’s a well-accepted theory, but the idea suits me.
Consider this, free will can still be pre-planned. We can choose what we want to do, so what if it was pre planned? I still chose it.
I like to change definitions to secure my position also
what definition did I change?
The meaning of free will.
The meaning of free will is exactly what people are discussing when they talk about whether or not it exists. What does and what doesn’t count as free will is what’s up for discussion.
I think free will as a concept is kinda stupid I’ve yet to talk to anyone who can actually give it a solid definition that isn’t something like “it means we can do what we want”
Either your decision is based on your personality, meaning it’s not free it’s a set calculation based on genetics and accumulated experience or it’s completely random meaning it’s not will at all
Can your free will be restricted in any way? Someone in prison has less agency than you or I, if that means his free will is restricted then we have more free will than he does. Therefore it exists.
I would say his free will is not restricted
His decision making options are restricted but those decisions are just as much a product of his past as the ones we make out of prison, he’s still acting entirely based on external and internal forces
I’ll put it this way, if you were to make an exact copy of our universe at this moment and watch both of them play out, he’d almost certainly make the exact same decision both times, same applies to someone out of prison
My point isn’t that people don’t practically have agency in the decisions they make, because they obviously do. We just don’t know all the forces that influence that decision and it’s not useful to think about that, so we call it free will
What is free will if not decision making? I understand people who say free will doesn’t exist as saying we don’t actually make decisions, it’s all decided for us by some other factor.
The ability to predict things does not negate free will. If I put a ball on a hill it will roll down because it has no free will, and I am able to predict that. If I offer you $20 or a punch in the face I am able to predict that you will choose the $20, but that doesn’t mean free will doesn’t exist because you could choose the punch in the face.
I am 100% sure any ball will roll down the hill 100% of the time. I am only 99.99% sure that any person will choose the $20 100% of the time, because humans have more free will than a ball.
Why do we need to bother executing it then? Choice has no value if agency to exercise it is revoked at any stage.
Not executing it would also be predetermined. The only thing you can do is pretend to choose.
that thought affects your brain, and therefore the future! :D
But you didn’t choose to have the thought did you?
Quick think of a city and then explain to me why you didn’t pick Cairo
Free will exists because I can change my mind about liking or wanting something.
I want to rebuke you but you name is even more triggering. There is no linear chaos, you need non-linearities or discontinuities for chaos.
Glad I could be of use.
The concept behind linear chaos is that the chaos is bound at one point. The theoretical cone of influence can only move in one direction and widen at a set rate. Kind of a mashup of chaos over time.
Ah that’s really cool. So maybe similar to how turbulence can form at one point while the preceding flow remains laminar?
Yeah, chaos crops up in linear systems sometimes in unexpected places.
There are a couple of scientific papers on it, and at least one textbook. Even at that I’m not sure it’s a well-accepted theory, but the idea suits me.