the overwhelming majority of businesses are not ran by the workers themselves.
And do you have any sources to back up your assertion that that’s because they “don’t work”? Because the way I see it it could just as well be our current legal systems and societal incentive structures that prevent them from being more of a thing.
Amongst the top 100 most valuable companies, not a single one is ran as a worker collective. If we extend it to the top 1000 most valuable companies, we have mondragon, the IFFCO and CHS. Which is still only 3 of 1000. I don’t know how much more of a source you need.
current legal systems
The current legal system doesn’t do anything to prevent worker-ran companies.
societal incentive structures
Dunno what you mean by that tbh.
In the end, too many cooks spoil the broth. Worker collectives suffer exactly from that problem. On top of that, many people don’t WANT to be a part of their company. They want to work 4 - 8 hours, get their safe salary and move on. If the company goes bankrupt, they move on and don’t want to be personally liable. On top of that, having a company with a lot of employees that all have an equal say in matters makes such companies extremely inflexible.
I legit never met anyone IRL with a job that was claiming that worker collectives are the greatest thing ever, it’s only on lemmy or other lefty online communities where this statement is spread.
Amongst the top 100 most valuable companies, not a single one is ran as a worker collective. […] I don’t know how much more of a source you need.
I didn’t ask for sources that they’re not a thing, I asked for sources on the reasons for that.
The current legal system doesn’t do anything to prevent worker-ran companies.
I’m a startup owner (in Germany) who has looked at the possibility of making my company worker-owned. It is serious effort and comes with a lot of hurdles, tax headaches, etc., because the legal system is not generally made with that kind of company structure in mind, much less the transition into it. It is very easy to start a company with the default capitalist structure of one or a few owners/investors, it requires magnitudes more to do it the worker-owned way (and do it right). But sure tell me again how the legal system is impartial in that matter.
In the end, too many cooks spoil the broth.
That’s assuming that everyone wants to have a say in everything, and that there are no good internal structures for dividing and assigning responsibility. You can still have individual people who steer the ship, who make autonomous decisions in certain areas, etc. The difference being that they’re selected by their peers, rather than through a management hierarchy, and they answer to their peers, rather than their managers and/or investors.
Did you look at the linked Wikipedia page? Mondragon is big, it has 70000 workers. Wikipedia says it is one of the biggest companies in Spain.
I’m well aware that mondragon is big, it’s the prime example that’s always brought up when “MUUUH WORKER SHOULD OWN THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION!!!”
Doesn’t change the fact that the overwhelming majority of businesses are not ran by the workers themselves.
And do you have any sources to back up your assertion that that’s because they “don’t work”? Because the way I see it it could just as well be our current legal systems and societal incentive structures that prevent them from being more of a thing.
Amongst the top 100 most valuable companies, not a single one is ran as a worker collective. If we extend it to the top 1000 most valuable companies, we have mondragon, the IFFCO and CHS. Which is still only 3 of 1000. I don’t know how much more of a source you need.
The current legal system doesn’t do anything to prevent worker-ran companies.
Dunno what you mean by that tbh.
In the end, too many cooks spoil the broth. Worker collectives suffer exactly from that problem. On top of that, many people don’t WANT to be a part of their company. They want to work 4 - 8 hours, get their safe salary and move on. If the company goes bankrupt, they move on and don’t want to be personally liable. On top of that, having a company with a lot of employees that all have an equal say in matters makes such companies extremely inflexible.
I legit never met anyone IRL with a job that was claiming that worker collectives are the greatest thing ever, it’s only on lemmy or other lefty online communities where this statement is spread.
I didn’t ask for sources that they’re not a thing, I asked for sources on the reasons for that.
I’m a startup owner (in Germany) who has looked at the possibility of making my company worker-owned. It is serious effort and comes with a lot of hurdles, tax headaches, etc., because the legal system is not generally made with that kind of company structure in mind, much less the transition into it. It is very easy to start a company with the default capitalist structure of one or a few owners/investors, it requires magnitudes more to do it the worker-owned way (and do it right). But sure tell me again how the legal system is impartial in that matter.
That’s assuming that everyone wants to have a say in everything, and that there are no good internal structures for dividing and assigning responsibility. You can still have individual people who steer the ship, who make autonomous decisions in certain areas, etc. The difference being that they’re selected by their peers, rather than through a management hierarchy, and they answer to their peers, rather than their managers and/or investors.