Most of the misinformation communities are easy to spot, but !collapse@lemm.ee falls into a slightly different category, and it presents itself in an unusual way. It seems like one of the main mods flavors his postings with a consistent sprinkling of posts that say that Europe not buying fossil fuels from Russia is a catastrophe for Europe, and they must reverse course as soon as possible and stop trying to depend on renewable energy, since it doesn’t work.

Here are some examples from a most recent post. It’s far from the only post that includes this general shape and character, but it’s particularly on the nose. From https://lemm.ee/post/49292464:

That will leave Europe with expensive LNG from Qatar and the US, as well as some pipeline gas from Norway and through Turkiye, which is Russian gas in a roundabout, third-party way. As always: higher complexity comes at a higher price — a direct consequence of the EU’s economic war on its largest energy supplier.

With the predictable unpredictability of wind and solar, however, and with a massive reliance on natural gas fired power plants to balance electricity demand, Europe has just saw the fastest drop in natural gas storage in years. Yes, the weather was cold in the past couple of weeks, but it wasn’t nearly as cold as it could get in the dead of winter. Wind on the other hand stopped blowing, which not only resulted in lower electricity generation from wind turbines, but also in thicker clouds and more persistent fog… Leading to a much diminished solar power generation. Welcome to the good old Dunkelflaute (or the dark doldrums) so common this time of year, and by the way sometimes throughout the entire winter… Who could have thought that “renewables” produce much less electricity during wintertime…?

Whenever a large solar farm returns production it sends a shock wave through the grid, damaging sensitive equipment nearby. Similarly, when a cloud suddenly blocks the Sun a micro-blackout could occur (lasting a few milliseconds) till back up capacity comes online. These fluctuations in the supply of electricity has forced many companies with sensitive manufacturing equipment to install surge protectors and uninterruptible power supply units costing tens or hundreds of thousands of Euros (depending on size) or outright buying a natural gas powered generation unit to produce their own stable electricity supply.

In the meantime, and just for the record, the IMF has just named Russia the 4th largest economy of the world, surpassing Japan and Germany; after the World Bank classified it as a high income country. Despite all protestations, sanctions actually helped Russia rein in its worst oligarchs and encouraged investments to replace lost imports. Contrary to what Europe’s ruling elite had in mind, their policy has lead to a huge economic boom in Russia, driven by internal consumption and powered by an abundant supply of fossil fuels.

I asked the mod about what was up with this, on an earlier post, and they didn’t seem to have much of a response other than an appeal to authority. (https://lemm.ee/post/49069993)

Obviously, I could be right or wrong, and no one’s obligated to answer my questions about anything, but at that point I was looking at it as “You may be unintentionally posting misinformation” and warning the person, and their response didn’t line up for me with someone who is innocently posting informative content because they believe it to be true.

  • Skua@kbin.earth
    242·
    15 days ago

    The mod and community were both on .ml until the mod’s account there got suspended, so it’s hardly a surprise that they’re taking up a pro-Russia position

    Unfortunately it seems like the mod’s position on climate change in general, based on the discussion about the post that got them suspended, is that there is nothing we can do. Specifically because they think that the only solution would be population reduction and control, and that’s not politically viable. So I maybe wouldn’t bother listening to anything this persom says, because even if you think they are right there’s nothing useful to be done with the information

    • eleitl@lemm.ee
      47·
      15 days ago

      You’re spreading misinformation. We moved the community because some lemmy.ml instance admins started censoring the community content which obviously isn’t acceptable. Nobody was banned.

      You also mistaken to think we believe there is a solution. A predicament has none. What you do with the information is up to you. If you think it is useless, just don’t engage.

      I will not continue further in this thread and suggest you find something more suitable to do with your time. Have a nice day.

      • Skua@kbin.earth
        10·
        15 days ago

        I’m not saying the linked post got you banned, I’m saying that the discussion about the post is on there. However I did misread the modlog - your .ml account was only suspended, not permanently banned, so I will edit that

        You also mistaken to think we believe there is a solution

        I specifically said you didn’t think there was a viable solution

        If you think is useless, just don’t engage.

        That was also what I said

        • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catOP
          8·
          15 days ago

          You also mistaken to think we believe there is a solution

          I specifically said you didn’t think there was a viable solution

          One of the most reliable hallmarks, I’ve found, to the misinformation accounts is that they will lie about what you said, as part of why they’re arguing that you were wrong when you said it and so you’re a wrong person, when what you said is right there for anyone to read in the parent comment. They fill in both sides of the argument: The wrong thing they’re pretending you said, and then why it isn’t true, avoiding entirely the real basis for disagreement that was the previous topic of discussion.

          I suspect the tactic is employed because it’s cheap and easy way to create a facade of legitimate conflict between two points of view, without having to spend the mental energy on creating a real counterargument or letting the dispute get into reality-based territory where the crazypants positions they stake out for themselves would be exposed.

            • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catOP
              1·
              5 days ago

              Here’s where they said what I summarized as “Europe not buying fossil fuels from Russia is a catastrophe for Europe”:

              Now, with the exclusion of Gazprombank, the bank handling most of the international transactions for Gazprom (the largest gas producing company in Russia) from the SWIFT inter-bank messaging system, and Ukraine unwilling to renew transit permits through its territories, the cheapest form of natural gas supplies to Europe will likely dwindle to a mere trickle. That will leave Europe with expensive LNG from Qatar and the US, as well as some pipeline gas from Norway and through Turkiye, which is Russian gas in a roundabout, third-party way. As always: higher complexity comes at a higher price — a direct consequence of the EU’s economic war on its largest energy supplier.

              Will this lead to a repeat of the 2022 price rally then? Hardly. As one can see from the extent of layoffs cited above, Europe is deindustrializing fast. Half of the continent’s steel, glass and aluminum capacity, together with fertilizer and chemical plants have already left in the first wave (in late 2022 and early 2023). Now, it’s time for the automotive and machine manufacturing sector to go, together with the “renewables” and battery businesses. Well, energy is (still) the economy, it seems. As industrial demand recedes, however, so does consumer demand. With mass layoffs, and in response to a huge drop in the purchasing power of their money, people started to buy less and less products made with expensive energy, and turned down the heating in their homes even further.

              Here’s what they said that I summarized as “they must reverse course as soon as possible and stop trying to depend on renewable energy”:

              In light of the above it’s even harder to understand how European elites could be so irresponsible. Instead of revising their energy / foreign policy, they have doubled down on “renewables” even as they severed all vital links to their primary source of cheap fossil fuels. Contrary to its vital economic interests, Europe has tied its import dependent economy to a fast sinking “rules based world order”, together with LNG supplies from the U.S. with diminishing reserves and a soon to be peaking production. Instead of doing everything to prevent a war with their biggest neighbor, and to find a cooperative coping mechanism to deal with the coming long decline in world energy production, the EU and NATO remained hell bent on expansion and sabotaged every deal along the way — together with the many opportunities for peace. Even as the war is being lost as we speak, there are still no talks about building a lasting peace taking both side’s security considerations into account. Instead, we hear more ‘peace through strength’, ‘deterrence’ and sending European troops into Ukraine to freeze the conflict… Only to prepare the country for a renewed offensive few years later. Just like many times before in the old continent’s battered history confrontation was chosen over cooperation, ultimately leaving Europe in ruins and in a deep economic turmoil. Only this time, in the absence of a cheap and abundant new energy source, the downturn could all too easily become permanent.

              That also covers some of “since it doesn’t work,” as well does what I already included and satirized at some length, the accusation that connecting solar panels to your grid will destroy equipment because when a cloud goes across the sun, the whole equipment suffers some kind of catastrophe.

              I’m comfortable with my summary, in other words. The whole thing is so long-winded that it’s hard to boil down to simple statements, but it’s actually uncommonly direct in what it’s saying for this type of propaganda.