Summary
Tipping in America has expanded into unexpected areas, with 72% of Americans saying it is expected in more places than five years ago, according to Pew Research.
While tipping can release feel-good neurotransmitters, a Bankrate survey found two-thirds of Americans now view it negatively, and one-third feel it’s “out of control.”
Critics highlight issues like social pressure and wage inequality, while businesses attempting no-tipping models, like a New York wine bar, have struggled to sustain them.
Many believe tipping culture has become excessive, with calls for reform growing.
If your business can’t survive without my tips, you don’t have a viable business.
But also, if you can’t survive without my tips, you’re probably working in the American service sector.
I don’t tip businesses, I tip people. Some of those people own the business.
If you underpay people to rely on tips, you’re just playing the game on a harder level.
I generally agree with you, but what is your response to businesses like those mentioned in the article that tried a no-tip model and could not sustain it?
I think that tipping models are starting to emulate app microtransaction models - they know that a majority of people are not going to tip, or will round their total up to the nearest dollar or something. It’s the person that sees the option to tip and decides to throw an extra $20 just because that they’re after. If they instead raise the prices to make it average out, the majority of people that normally would not be tipping go somewhere that’s cheaper (because they do tips), and the few people that would pay extra no longer have the option to.
To tie back to the microtransaction analogy - the games that bring in money are the free ones where you can pay to get stuff. Most people pay very little or nothing, but a small percentage throws tons of cash into the game. If you were to take the amount of money brought in by these whales over the life of a game, divide it among all people that played it, and charged that much for the game, it wouldn’t profit nearly as much, because none of those people want to pay the $5, and the people that were spending hundreds can only buy the game once, if that.
what is your response to businesses like those mentioned in the article that tried a no-tip model and could not sustain it?
That they don’t have a viable business.
Probably because of all the other businesses competing by not paying their employees a fair salary
I mean, yeah. Obviously. But to the other businesses or potential business owners that want to try a tipless model, that see these businesses failing, that’s not very encouraging or helping to figure out what the underlying issue is. If people are trying to do a good thing but can’t quite figure out how to make it work, should we just say, “guess you’re not very good at this” and continue giving business to the places asking for tips, or should we try to look into what’s going on?
I’m not sure what you think my stance is or what point you’re trying to make.
I don’t think you understand the competitive pressure of every other restaurant not raising their menu prices 20% alongside you. Do you think that a business isn’t viable if they can’t absorb a 20% labor increase without raising prices?
I suspect you are not a reliable or competent business analyst.
I don’t think you understand my stance on the issue. Why would you assume that I think a restaurant should stop accepting tips while everyone else does, and also not raise their prices? You are making a lot of assumptions about what I think.
You are combining the two distinct possibilities I referenced as consequences for a restaurant that stops accepting tips:
-
Raise menu prices, lose business to competitors
-
Do not raise prices, fail by not covering expenses
Either way, it’s not sustainable to voluntarily go tipless, which is why those who tried, revert. You’re the one that said that made them unviable. Did you mean to say something else?
I said that a business which cannot survive without tips is not viable. I did not comment on what other changes might be required.
Then the vast majority of restaurants are not viable. Again, your business analysis is not viable. An opinion that ignores fundamental aspects of the trade space isn’t worth the cost to light the pixels to display it.
-
The problem with one place going tip-less, is that they’re still competing with tipped places.
Going tip-less inherently means the prices need to go up. If the average tip is 20%, you need to raise prices at least that much, to match what your people got from tips. So if you have a restaurant with menu prices 20-30% higher than others, you’d expect to loose business to competitors. If every restaurant in the area had to raise menu prices 20-30% with you, that wouldn’t happen.
I have a dine-in movie theater near me. Which I grant, is different than a standard restaurant. This last year they changed their POS system, and removed from the bill an automatic 18% gratuity they used to have. Something like a month later, they added it back. Because everyone complained. Customers, and servers alike.
If a single restaurant really wants to go “tip-less”, that’s the way to do it. Automatically add a minimum tip to every bill.
No response, they didn’t explain what challenges they encountered.
Fuck all tipping. Fuck unclear prices. Fuck variable service.
Put clear prices. Expect consistent service. Pay fair wages.
If it’s about low pay. Why not expect businesses to pay fair liveable wages like every other industry?
If it’s about quality of service. Why do you not expect good service every time? Why do you not also tip your doctor for good service or the construction workers who ensured the roads are good for you to use?
Idiotic inconsistencies and morons everywhere defending it. Only in recent years are people finally taking notice, but 10 years ago oh I’m an asshole for suggesting tipping should be banned in favor of consistency, clear prices, and fair wages.
If it were about quality of service, you would tip before receiving the service. The waiter doesn’t know how much you’re gonna tip, so their quality of service will never change.
That’s the weirdest argument ever. You tip on the basis of the quality of service. The server learns from feedback and training how to improve quality. It’s not a one and done situation, but a constant feedback and refinement.
Which is idiotic. At most other jobs, that is internal, impacts rewards like bonuses, and potential fireability. Just stupid to make it the customers problem.
I mean, if you’re the asshole for suggesting it, then I’m right there being an asshole with you. I still tip, because I want the people who serve me to be able to take care of themselves, but ideally, that shouldn’t be my fucking responsibility. It should be their employer’s. It’s a fucking barbaric system that puts service workers’ ability to put food on the table in the hands of entitled Karens and reduces them to begging for a decent wage.
There’s a cider bar that opened in my town recently with a strict no-tipping policy, and holy shit, is it ever refreshing to not have to deal with that rigamarole.
A lot of tipped workers defend it because waiters can make good money for their qualifications, but what they don’t understand is that they should be making that amount of money without requiring tips.
The problem is that when a restaurant increases prices, they don’t share the extra income with the staff.
Hell, Subway has doubled the prices in like 3 years AND started asking for tips for the staff.
You were an asshole in good company.
Wow you’re the first American ever to think tipping is bad! Ten whole years ago? What a thot leader
What a peculiar line of attack. OP isn’t bragging about anything, they’re irritated that it’s taken at least a decade for a known problem to be addressed.
Being frustrated about a problem for a long time ≠ being into a thing before it was cool.
Was definitely not bragging or saying I’m the only one. I just distinctly remember some people who were very passionate about this attacking me and in some cases it destroyed our friendship or acquaintance since they judged me for it.
Never made sense to me. I told them I never refused to tip people. I wasn’t an asshole about it, but I certainly tried to avoid going to places that expected tipping.
I bought a couple of sweaters online today, and the order form asked for a tip.
No.
There’s an option to tip at the self check out at my grocery store. The fuck ám I tipping? It’s self check out. Am I tipping myself? Fuck these people
You’re just giving the large corporation a little walking around money, for their wonderful service, of profitably running a store! You’re so nice!
You’re tipping the kiosk that provided the service. I guess.
Great, can we get one that can scan things the first time? They can scan one thing maybe every 10 seconds.
Or maybe a more responsive OS, like something that’s not Windows.
Those payment services subtract their free from the money that is sent to the receiver.
This is the dark side of Nudge theory. People need to practise refusing and it will stabilize. I tip handsomely when I want to and I refuse when I don’t. Sometimes I feel irrational guilt. I sit with the guilt for a while, then it’s gone.
Tip when you want as much as you want and no more. Refuse to listen to anyone who tells you that this is morally wrong.
Peace.
Fuck all tipping.
This. Make people quit their serving jobs because of the lack of tips. Create a demand for servers that forces employers to actually pay a living wage.
Every single time you tip you are perpetuating this system. Stop.
Nudge theory is bs
No other comment on your content, may be right or wrong.
And yet, people are presented more often with a meaningless request for tips. Sounds like Nudge to me. Plz bring evidence.
(Edited to remove superfluous irrelevant claim that might not be true, anyway. I regret the error.)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_theory
Critique -> no evidence
I see that now. Thanks.
It looks like we have a plausible mechanism and no evidence yet. I wonder who is trying to gather more evidence. My money is on nudging having nontrivial effect, but I might sleep better if I knew it didn’t. Either way, people will try, and that’s where we are.
In that case, we fall back to the impact. All the more reason to advise folks to resist tipping unless they actually want to—to interpret the requests for tips in unexpected places as little more than an optimistic, misguided, or even accidental attempt to nudge. It’s the judgmental stories that people tell themselves that seem to tie them up in knots. Let others judge you for not tipping, because they were going to find some way to judge you, anyway.
We can practise resisting. I recommend trying.
No no no. The burden of proof is on you to show that people are actually tipping more. The article said that people reported seeing prompts to tip in a lot more places and many people have said tipping is out of control but no where did it give any data to show that people are tipping more.
I personally don’t tip in any of the new tipping situations. I don’t tip at retail checkouts or restaurant takeouts. I still tip when it’s sit down service and the server is nice, attentive, and punctual (and more if they’re really friendly).
I have heard from the “tipping is out of control” crowd in my local restaurant discussion group and some of these folks have reacted so negatively that they swore to never tip again. I have no way of tracking these people to see if they keep their promise and I kind of doubt they would refuse to tip a really nice server at a sit down restaurant. However, I would be really surprised if these folks were actually tipping more than they used to before all the tipping prompts showed up on credit card terminals.
No no no. The burden of proof is on you to show that people are actually tipping more.
I see. So I can understand your original reply as something in the neighborhood of “I don’t believe that people are tipping more”? rather than a denial of Nudge theory?
Indeed, I don’t have evidence. Let me withdraw any claim that people are tipping more, not only because I can’t support it with data, but also because that’s irrelevant to my point.
Nudge Theory is about nudging people by changing the choice of least resistance. The dark side of that is presenting people with an option to tip in a situation where they can be judged for refusing. Whether they actually tip more or not, this is literally taxing on the nervous system and is just another way of using bugs in the human brain against humans. It is presenting another resentment-stirring obstacle in their path.
In addition, and somewhat beside the point, I’d be shocked if people weren’t actually tipping in those situations. Worse, and more troubling, I’d be shocked if they weren’t consequently tipping less to wait staff who truly need it and were being tipped more before this trend started happening. I have no evidence, but I see a clear and plausible mechanism.
That’s it.
Two different people
I’m the one who said nudge theory is bs because studies show the theory isn’t valid.
The other person, who was right, points out that you can’t use unrelated circumstantial data to back up your point
Being overwhelmed with tip prompts has broken my tipping guilt. I feel like half the time people work don’t get or see those tips.
Sit down restaurants absolutely. Delivery yeah.
Pick up nah, you walk something 2 feet to me nah. Fuck tipping culture, pay your people right and charge accordingly don’t keep tacking on shit, tip charge, service charge, every other fucking sneak at the bill only charge now a days.
I was at a sit down recently where the lowest tip selectable without entering a dollar amount was 18%. 10% used to be the standard for competent service, 15%-20% for outstanding service. Now the quality of service is worse because they’re underataffed, and they expect me to tip more?? Get real.
The lowest “suggested” option has crept up to 20% in many places. A 15% tip is already adjusted for inflation. Now you want 20?
My take on tipping: If I can’t get the product without further employee assistance, I’m not tipping. Take a sandwich shop, for example. You’re not going to let me behind the counter to assemble my sandwich, so I’m not going to tip you for doing it for me because I can’t get the sandwich otherwise.
My only exception to this is a bar because I’m usually there for more than 1 drink, and it’s nice not to be the last one to get served when it gets crowded.
I’m confused. At a sit down restaurant you can’t just walk into the kitchen and make your meal, yet that is a standard place to tip.
I would absolutely tip at a sit-down place. But not if I were ordering take out from the same place.
Apparently there are now tip prompts on digital payment terminals for payday loans…
I’ve seen them on rent payment sites
They seem to be confusing shelter with bottle service.
Don’t forget to tip your landlord!
Other than the idiotic healthcare system and politics, tipping is probably my least favorite thing about the US. No-tipping works elsewhere, and it can work in the US.
at tobacco shop
POS: add a tip?
…for what, death?
I hate that tipping culture is a thing in the US and wish the culture would change. But as a former waiter, I’d never take a job at a no-tip restaurant (or even a pooled tip restaurant) because I always made higher than average tips than my coworkers.
If you were still waiting tables, what would you have done/felt had tipping been outlawed? Change of jobs, looked for something at a certain rate of pay for waiting?
As a waiter, I made a lot more money from tips than the wage itself. So making an impression on the customers was a huge priority, and I was good at it. If that was no longer a factor, I imagine it would result in a lower quality of customer service provided by me, even if the employer tried to compensate with a higher wage.
When i order food, i want it brought to my table and for the bringer to be as invisible and quiet as can be. I also avoid places where i can’t pay up front. I never understood the tiping thing.
When i order food, i want it brought to my table and for the bringer to be as invisible and quiet as can be.
I agree. I can’t stand a chatty server because I know they’re performing for tips. Unfortunately, most of them have to because in the U.S., servers can be paid less than minimum wage since they’re expected to make up the difference in tips.
I hope the rest of society gives you lower quality service every day since you’re not tipping them… What a shit attitude
Also anyone who claims tipping results in better service has never left north america
I regularly get shit service here and still expected to tip 15%
Service in most of europe is WAY better and there is generally no expectation of a tip
I hope the rest of society gives you lower quality service every day since you’re not tipping them… What a shit attitude
I tip. Not sure where you got the impression that I don’t. and not sure why you are wishing me a bad life.
Also anyone who claims tipping results in better service has never left north america
Is this assumption made because I admitted to have worked as a waiter?
Do you tip your grocery store cashier? Do you tip your baker? Do you tip your mail carrier? Do you tip your garbageman? Do you tip your local librarian? Do you tip your child’s teachers (if applicable)? Did you tip your lemmy instance admin? Do you tip your local city councillor?
If not, then you should expect shit tier service from them too
I dont wish you a bad life. I’m just pointing out how bad life would be if everyone had your attitude and work ethic
There is an established culture in the US in regards to tipping full service waitstaff. Good luck trying to break that culture without understanding the servers perspective, and why many of them defend the status quo.
It’s clearly not as established as you think… The goalposts keep moving. here are some (un)welcome changes i’ve noticed in my lifetime…
- tipping people we didnt used to tip
- tipping for takeout
- increase in rate of tip
- tip calculated AFTER tax
“this is the way it’s always been done” is not only a stupid defense, but is totally false in this cse
With no taxes on tips (if it actually happens), expect a HUGE increase in tip expectations.
I’m no longer tipping just because the stupid kiosk asks me to and making me feel guilty… If it’s not a normally tipped position such as server, bartender, or barista, I’m going to default to tapping no. It’s gotten ridiculous.
