This occurred to me while listening to the news. When they exchange people it’s always hostages for people held in Palestine and prisoners for people held in Israel. Why is that? Is it just perception or is there a practical difference?
This occurred to me while listening to the news. When they exchange people it’s always hostages for people held in Palestine and prisoners for people held in Israel. Why is that? Is it just perception or is there a practical difference?
Lot of bad takes and sensationalism in this thread. The real difference is that one group (prisoners) were charged with crimes, and the others (hostages) weren’t.
Whether those criminal charges are valid or not is another story, but that’s why they’re using different terms for each group, as they’re not captive under the same pretense as the other.
Many Palestinian prisoners aren’t charged with crimes and have “secret evidence” held against them. Given Israel’s track record of lying and colonialist activity, I’ll leave you to decide if they actually do have that evidence. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/5/2/more-than-600-palestinians-held-by-israel-without-charge-or-trial
On top of that, the vast majority of the actual crimes are incredibly minor like rock throwing, and it doesn’t matter if you’re a child. The conditions and treatment in Israel prisons for Palestinians is incredibly grim as well.
There’s a thin vaneer of an unjust legal framework, and the aims of Israel aren’t as explicit to hold them for trade, but they’re a whole lot closer to being hostages than most people care to admit.
You are really using a news source owned by the qatar govt for issues related to qatar?
How about this source, the actual human rights organization that produced the report?
https://hamoked.org/document.php?dID=Updates2136
Seems like a good source.
Why not? They’re a great source unless they’re reporting on something related to Qatar’s own government / interests.
The hostage deal was negotiated by Qatar, the Hamas leadership is living in luxury in Qatar, Qatar is seeking to gain more influence in the future of Gaza.
Is this really the right moment to blindly trust the Qatar state owned news source with its reporting about a Qatar negotiated deal related to a conflict that Qatar has a vested interest in?
You’re spelling out how they’re acting like a neutral party here.
It’s a destitute open air prison. Come on now.
I don’t blindly trust their reporting. It was one search result. Most of the details on Israeli actions and policy come straight from Israeli sources like B’Tselem.
Is it not true? You could tell me that with something backing it instead of complaining about a reputable source.
Qatar is balls-deep in this conflict, my dude.
Well qatar govt funds hamas, so id say it falls within their interests.
They act as a mediator for Israel to fund Hamas.
Not saying they’ve never given any of their own money to the governing body of a destitute open air prison, but that wouldn’t be unique to them.
Yes, but also no.
Palestinians who are held without trial are held in administrative detention, that’s usually done if the person poses an immediate danger, but the evidence isn’t up to the legal standard (a judge still has to approve the arrest). It’s also used against Jewish citizens (though admittedly much less. IIRC there are two Jews held in administrative detention right now).
Absolutely none of the Palestinians held in administrative detention are about to be set free, and they aren’t regarded as “standard” prisoners (they are always referred as “administrative detainees”, never “prisoners”).
Ohhh they call them something else, now it’s totally different!
The question was about why are Palestinians in Israel are called “prisoners” and Israelis in Gaza are “hostages”, in the context of the people exchanged during the truce. The person I replied to said some “prisoners” in Israel are held without trial, to which I replied they are not called “prisoners”, and are not part of the exchange.
So… could you explain the point you’re trying to make? If that’s just some general point about Israel treating Palestinians unjustly, that’s fine (I actually agree with you to some extent), but I don’t see how that has to do with the difference between two specific groups of Palestinians and Israelis.
Well your comment is a blatant lie for starters. Many Palestinian hostages who were kidnapped without any evidence or charges were released today as part of the deal. Care to address that?
https://youtu.be/kF_xnBKftew?si=SU4NSm6Gl2PYNPkJ
Yeah, I’d like to address that.
This message turned out a bit longer than I intended, but I really tried to give the best answer I can.
First off, the video takes statements from the Palestinians released and conveyed them as-is. It’s extremely hard to verify things like that, so there’s absolutely no basis saying my comment is a “blatant lie” unless you automatically assume every Palestinians statement is the objective truth. If that’s the case, feel free to skip the rest of this post as there’s nothing I can say to make you re-evaluate your position.
I could just say “If you claim Palestinians have been kidnapped without any evidence or charges and held as hostage, please show me some evidence instead of unsubstantiated claims made by a party who has a vested interest in making false claims”. I thing that’s a valid claim, but as you can see, I do have a bit more to say. I’ve actually tried to check her statement when the video was posted earlier (not so I could argue about it, just to be informed).
First off, many of the Palestinians approved for release have been charged with serious crimes (some, though they might not have been release yet, as Israel is trying to release them from least serious to most serious). Even Al-Jazeera said most Palestinians released were charged with “small” crimes such as throwing rocks. So which is it - Are Palestinians being kidnapped without charges, or are they being charged with minor crimes? If some were kidnapped and some were legally arrested, would calling them “hostages” not be as inaccurate as calling them “prisoners”?
There’s only one Palestinian who said she was held without charges, not “many” as you claimed. It’s also worth noting she said she was “due to be released in October”, so I think it’s odd calling her a “hostage” (hostages usually don’t get released if a certain time has passed. that’s more correctly called a “detainee”).
Going from her age and arrest date, there’s only one 24yo female Palestinian who was detained in October and approved for release. I won’t try to write her name in English, as there’s 0% chance I’ll get it right, but in Hebrew it’s רגד נשאת צלאח אל פני (copy-paste the name to find her details, which can be translated via google translate).
Assuming that’s her, she was charged with “State security - other”, which is a general charge that can include espionage, giving information to the enemy, inciting violence and more. I will admit it’s a general charge, and the fact she was due to be released shows the Israeli state wasn’t able to make it stick.
So why did she say she was being held without a charge? Don’t know. Maybe in her mind “state security” isn’t a valid charge. Maybe she was exaggerating. Maybe she’s lying (yes, even oppressed people can lie). Maybe she was told her charge would be amended (that makes sense. As I said, “State security” is a general crime). Or maybe I found the wrong person. The point is, I did really try to find more information based on the video, and was unable to substantiate her claims. If you have any other source for similar claims, I’d be very interested to hear about them.
I live in Israel, and I’ll agree that a lot of times Palestinians are treated badly. I’m even prone to think the person in the video should have been freed after 3 months instead of 12. That said, there’s a far cry from that to saying Palestinians are kidnapped without evidence and being held without trial.
State security - OTHER is indeed not a real charge at all. If she was even told about this that is. The word espionage exists as a charge, it is not in her charge.
Jailing someone for even 3 months without process is completely insane, but a YEAR ?? That’s a kangaroo court justice system
Afterwards you go on a journey dismissing this heinous court system as okay because apparently if you can read the charges every crime israel commits is fine because Kkkkhhhamasss
Don’t look up the Amnesty report damming israel for killing their hostages without process in jail. You’d have to do some insane mental gymnastics and you might not be ready for it.
In what respect would the crime not matter if you’re a “child”? Minors frequently participate as attackers in Hamas attacks. If Israel didn’t apply punitive detention to anyone under 18, then every Hamas attacker would be under the age of 18.
Please tell me you think it’s justified to hold a child in prison for years for throwing a rock at a tank. Oh, or maybe they illegally walked on the wrong side of the road in the west bank. I really want to hear this.