Three plaintiffs testified about the trauma they experienced carrying nonviable pregnancies.
Horrible laws written mostly by men against women. Men who will never and have never been affected by what they are prohibiting.
It’s so gross and infuriating.
Even if it did affect them through someone they knew, the people writing the laws can afford to circumvent them. Make no mistake, these people do get abortions banned or not.
Just another Monday
Have you SEEN an anti-abortion rally? LOTS of women.
Men are the ones making the laws. And they have no idea about the biology. Take the politician from Ohio for example, who suggested that an ectopic pregnancy should be reimplanted into the uterus.
You say men as in like about 4 billion people are huddling in a room all evil like crunching up laws to make women’s lives worst which is certainly not the case.
Also kind of a moot point as the same minority of “men” as you say creating laws, also create laws that don’t benefit men in general at all.
Heartbreaking
One of the plaintiffs in the suit, Samantha Casiano, vomited on the stand while discussing her baby’s fatal birth defect, which she said also put her life at risk.
Casiano said she learned at 20 weeks’ gestation that her baby had anencephaly, a serious condition that meant the infant was missing parts of her brain and skull. Casiano said her obstetrician told her the baby would not survive after birth and gave her information about funeral homes.
Casiano read aloud a doctor’s note that diagnosed her pregnancy as high risk, then began to sob and ultimately threw up, prompting the judge to call a recess.
Ashley Brandt, a Dallas resident, said she was pregnant with twins but learned one had a fatal condition called acrania. The longer she carried it, the more it jeopardized the survival of her other twin.
oh my god…
I don’t think you can be any more “pro life” than putting 2 other healthy people at risk to save the life of a baby that’s going to die.
Don’t forget many “pro lifers” are in the same demographic as pro death penalty.
We’re actually running out of spots in hell for hardworking Christians at this point. We’re having to quadruple and octople stack souls together and it’s a bit alarming. I’ve been having to repeat a ton of times to the incredulous that feeling like you’re doing the right thing and doing the right thing, [aren’t the same thing].
They seem genuinely shocked and confused, which leaves me feeling leery if they’re actually idiots or evil. Hanlon’s Razor says to always assume ignorance before malice.
You guys gotta do something or all your old people are gonna end up cooking.
A good friend of mines wife had to carry a fetus with un-treatable Gastroschisis to term (AKA died withing seconds of birth) because of these pro life shitstains.
I am surprised these Texas savages did not lock her up.
Texas will soon be banning women from vomiting in public. That’ll solve that issue.
These types of laws are sick and barbaric and not indicitive of a civilised society! These woman should not have to revisit their trauma but they are fucking made to by a sick group of degenerates who make laws that the majority simply don’t want!
And the far right are going to claim she’s faking it like the disgusting people they are.
disgusting
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Any doctor who complies with this ban is a worthless piece of shit. Not as bad as the subhumans who wrote it and voted for it, but pretty fucking close.
“Physicians who violate Texas’s abortion laws can lose their medical licenses, face up to 99 years in prison or incur fines of at least $100,000, according to the Center for Reproductive Rights”
You wouldn’t have to deal with any decision as hard as this. How can you say a doctor is complicit? They’re likely just doing their best then a law gets put in place threatening life in prison.
Unless you’re put in that position, you have no room to say that shit.
If a doctor is willing to stand there with their thumb up their asshole while their patient dies an easily preventable death, they’re a failure as a doctor and as a human being. At best, it’s negligent manslaughter.
If you’re too much of a cowardly little rat to stand up against fascism to save a life, don’t be a fucking doctor; quit and go work at Taco Bell you belong.
Yea! Why don’t they all just line up to lose their medical licenses? That way they can’t help anyone!
Shortsighted dumbass…
Must be nice living in your sheltered little bubble where the deaths are abstract and doing the right thing when lives are at stake is the wrong thing to do.
You’re a morally bankrupt scumbag. People like you are the reason fascists win.
A doctor that throws away a career of helping people to make a political point once is probably not helping as many people as a doctor that avoids going to jail.
I understand the impulse here but the reality is that texas legislators would probably prefer to reduce the number of doctors available to the poors.
Do no harm
How is that applicable to this particular discussion?
It’s the first fucking line of their oath
Take the risk and provide the help or move to a state that allows you to help. Going along with the fascists isn’t the answer.
No, it isn’t. Physicians do not take the Hippocratic Oath. That is an anachronism.
It also wasn’t the first line in any version I can find.
Okay cool they don’t take an oath. Carry on 💪
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She wasn’t a protestor, she vomited while recounting being forced to carry a miscarriage and nearly dying as a result. She was just one of 3 who had similar stories who testified. Texas republicans are moving to dismiss their concerns. Not really a “both sides” situation.
On one hand, these “protestors” are mostly unhinged nutjobs.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve read all week.
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Sure.
I guess I’ll side with
…body autonomy, and against female slavery. That’s what you meant to say. Right?
female slavery
Exaggerations like this end up hurting your cause rather than helping it. It shows that you need hyperbole to make your points, which just delegitimizes them. If you just stated things as they are, more people would appreciate your honesty and would be willing to consider your arguments. Banning abortion is authoritarian, harms women, and the bans don’t actually reduce abortion rates per the research. That’s all you need to say to have most people support you.
What else would you call women in this scenario? You’re literally worth less than a non-sentient proto-fetal clump. Even if that clump is going to kill you. Its like giving cancer the right to live and banning any attempts to remove it.
They’re literally forcing women to die. The intended effect isn’t to ban abortion, its part of a concentrated effort from far right christian white nationalists to reduce women to an enforced subservient breeding class. Have you ever paid attention to the rest of the shit these people say? They say loud and clear what they want all the time. They want to take away divorce rights, they want gender roles to become legally enforced in particular with regards to clothing and expression, they oppose women in politics and in the work force, they pathologically shame and degrade women based on perceived promiscuity or perceived lack thereof.
This isn’t a matter of just having people oppose abortion bans. If it was, we wouldn’t be here. If majority public opinion was what mattered, roe v wade would never have been overturned to begin with. Abortion bans are extremely unpopular even with many conservative voters. If you’re poor, you’re just fucked. You have no recourse whatsoever and a lot of people with complicated pregnancies will just die. If you can’t afford the cost of relocating yourself out of a red state then you have nothing. You have no alternative but to try an unsafe method in what is probably going to be a non-clinical setting. And even if you succeed and live you can be tossed in jail for having made a Google search and one family member who calls the police. These are laws meant to kill women. They are meant to cause widespread fear and suffering for women and girls. Legally women and girls are not equal to men, not in bodily autonomy or in health care or in human rights. These laws aren’t simply harming women, they’re murdering them.
And honest to God if someone is dissuaded from being pro women’s rights because they feel that a random person online has made an “exaggeration”, and so choose to instead support laws that murder women - then they’re a misogynist already in league with the fascists pushing these laws. You’re an enemy of women if for absolutely any reason you support a law that’s primary aim is to literally end women’s lives. Its time to stop dabbling in bullshit, the people who write the laws aren’t stupid they are 100% aware of what these laws do. They are aware of how it forces minors who have been r*d to carry pregnancies they are likely to die from. They know, the laws are written specifically so that will happen. There’s no ambiguity, there’s no exaggeration, these are laws written and created with the specific express intent to cause grievous bodily harm to, and outright murder, women.
What else would you call women in this scenario? You’re literally worth less than a non-sentient proto-fetal clump
Worth an equal amount as another human life, you mean?
You perverting the other sides argument doesn’t make you or your argument better, just makes you come off as stupid and lacking any understanding of the issue as a whole.
There is no other human life involved. Or did you forget to read the next thing I said, that it’d be like declaring a tumor a human life and forbidding people from removing them. A proto fetal clump isn’t a person. It’s not a baby. Its not a human. It’s a clump. It has no thoughts, it has no feelings, it is not self aware, it is not an independent organism and is in all senses of the word a parasite. You can screw off if you think that a parasitic tumor has the same worth as a woman, that it has the same worth as a human being. And you’re only proving my point by even trying to justify it.
I perverted not a single fucking thing. These laws result directly, not indirectly but literally directly, in the killing of women and girls. Its murder to deny someone life saving medical care. You’re a sick misogynist if you defend any part of that. And the people who write these laws are not stupid, they’re not unaware, the intention is to result directly in grievous bodily harm and inevitable death of women and girls. Its murder, they know what these laws do. They know these laws don’t prevent abortion, and every single one of them will ship their daughter or their wife down to Mexico to get one if they have to. They won’t hesitate. There is no moral reason for these laws. These laws relegate women to a subservient breeding class deprived of the most basic fundamental human rights.
You’ve already shown who you actually are so ill be perfectly honest I don’t give a fuck what you have to say. I dont fraternize with misogynists, and defending the murder of women and girls unequivocally makes you a misogynist. Nothing you have to say after that has any validity whatsoever.
There is no other human life involved.
I believe there is which is why we’re having this debate.
the intention is to result directly in grievous bodily harm and inevitable death of women and girls.
And I believe that what’s in their belly is a whole other person to consider their lives.
There is no moral reason for these laws.
If someone believes that a fetus is essentially the same as my 2 month old niece, wouldn’t there be a moral reason to not want to them?
I understand your argument despite the hostility, I think if you calmly thought about it, you would think that there could be some moral backing, not that you would believe it or anything, simply that you can see how it could be a moral dilemma.
In this case there absolutely was another human life involved- the twin that’s life was at risk because doctors couldn’t abort the fetus that was going to die within hours of birth anyway. You don’t seem to care about that life.
Okay this argument is hypocritical AF. First, your two month old niece isn’t about to risk killing you and then die. Second, if she was going to die without you giving her an organ transplant, do you think it’s okay for the government to force you to do that surgery against your will? What about if it wasn’t your niece? What if you’re 10?
You don’t respect the autonomy of a woman if you believe in forcing decisions on them about their body, hard stop. There is no wiggle room for you to argue that the fetus matters, because you wouldn’t apply that to any other situation in life. Stop acting like it’s the moral choice when it’s literally forcing woman to risk their lives against their will. Those women are already alive, why don’t their rights and lives matter to you?
Ok, I’ll engage you on this one, your position at least seems internally consistent.
Let’s play out this example - your 2 year old niece is sick, and so are you. You recently found out that she even exists - you didn’t know you had a sister until CPS told you she’s your responsibility.
An action that risks your life could possibly save her… Let’s say a liver transplant. It has to be you, you’re her only living family member. And because of that, you’ll also be responsible for her - you can put her up for adoption when this is all over, but you’re still on the hook for the medical bills whether this works or not.
She’s guaranteed to die if you don’t give her the transplant, and you would almost certainly recover quickly on your own.
If you go through with the transplant, she has a slim chance to live, and an even slimmer one to have a decent quality of life.
But in your current state, the transplant is very risky - at best you’ll see a lengthy and expensive recovery, after missing months of work you’ll be tens of thousands of dollars in debt. Complications could see you paralyzed or in lifelong pain, and it’s very possible both of you die on the table - maybe even likely.
The doctors are telling you it’s a terrible idea to go through with this, that the risk is unacceptable and it would be a mercy to just let her pass, but they’re obligated to go through with it if you insist.
Now, no one is stopping you from going through with it - if you want to put your life on the line for another, that’s your decision to make. You’re her guardian now, so it’s your decision if she should have to go through the pain for the chance at life, no matter how small.
That’s all well and good - I’ve seen enough to know that death is often a mercy, but if you believe otherwise there’s not much to say
Now, here’s my question - should the government be able to force you to attempt the transplant?
Some of these details might seem weird, but I was trying to stick the metaphor as close as possible to a very real scenario with a dangerous pregnancy. The only difference is - the doctor is performing an action here, but withholding one with the pregnancy.
You’re not though - pregnancy is not a lack of action. It’s an enormous commitment, especially when it’s atypical. It can even be a practically guaranteed death sentence - if the fetus implants in the fallopian tubes, it’s already not viable - at best you’re waiting for the fetus to grow big enough to rupture them, and hoping the bleed that causes doesn’t do too much damage before you can get help.
Not to mention if a fetus dies in the womb after it gets to a certain size, it rots and leads to sepsis - unclear laws and harsh punishments have already led to situations where doctors refused care for both of these life threatening cases, and in both these cases the odds aren’t slim, they’re none. In the second the fetus was already gone… Sometimes when they induce labor the fetus isn’t even in one piece… It’s pretty grisly
I don’t agree with your belief that a potential life is the same as a life, but let’s set that aside - I can respect that as a belief
So… My root question to you is - Should you be able to force someone to risk their own for someone else?
If so, how sure do you have to be that the other person will die no matter what you do before you’re released from the compulsion to put your own health on the line?
There’s always at least some risk of pregnancy turning fatal for the mother. How much danger do you have to be in for the math to check out?
And also, to what point should politicians with little understanding of medicine be able to deny you care?
This is the state treating women as property. People are not comfortable with the word “slavery” and won’t even use it to describe the “forced labour” in Xinjiang. I think that’s fuck up and due to America’s influence. There’s nothing wrong with calling this slavery.
You’ll get downvoted because Lemmy appears as left wing as reddit, but it’s true.
Y’all saying that all we want is to control women and enslave them is bullshit, they know our concern is about the life in the womans stomach, but always try to strawman that shit like we’re just heartless woman haters.
As a conservative, why would I ever want to discuss and come to the table to discuss hard issues like these, when I just get called shit like I see in this thread. And people thinking I’m a literal nazi for considering the life of the baby?
Then they have the audacity to ask why we’re so divided in this nation.
Unfortunately, it is very hard to believe that you are concerned first and foremost with a human life and not with controlling women. And that is because conservatives are usually vocal in their opposition to abortion, but you rarely (almost never?) hear them being as vocal in their support for low-income families with children. In other words, it seems as if you only pretend to care about the unborn life, but once it is born, you don’t care anymore. So how could anyone believe that this is all about life in general and not just about control?
rarely (almost never?) hear them being as vocal in their support for low-income families with children. In other words, it seems as if you only pretend to care about the unborn life, but once it is born, you don’t care anymore. So how could anyone believe that this is all about life in general and not just about control?
I agree, it’s one of my huge criticisms to the R’s, and that’s what makes the whole thing more frustrating with these establishment politicians. We have to have better ways to take care of the basics kids need, make sure our people are fed, the foster care system needs a drastic overhaul and a very simple way is for both republicans and democrats to provide actual tax breaks for charitable contributions. We need to be a giving nation to charities that help people directly and efficiently.
I can’t do much except for trying to say that conservatives aren’t inherently bad because we share a few loosely related world outlooks with Republicans, who I rarely consider being actually conservatives.
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Was this even really a response?
It was the response it deserved
Interesting, didn’t really add anything to the convo.
How is it a straw man? Regardless of what your “intended concern” is the result is control over a woman’s body autonomy. How can you not see that reality?
How is it a straw man? Regardless of what your “intended concern” is the result is control over a woman’s body autonomy. How can you not see that reality?
Do you think because I believe the life in a womans belly has inherent value, that I literally want to enslave women?
If you think that, that’s the the exact problem in our politics. You take things to the extremes and don’t actually want to have conversation, you want to dominate and have your way. I understand the argument that women have a right to make choices on behalf of their bodies and what’s best for it. Do you understand my argument?
it’s not alive until it is born and can survive outside the womb. Nice logical leaps though.
You believe that.
Many don’t.
Does that make them enslavers to women?
Say they can survive outside the womb at 6 months. That’s the point that you say ‘okay, no more killing this being’?
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You think it’s a pile of cells with little value.
I believe it’s a human life with inherent value.
Why does that make me stupid? Because I believe something differently than you? Why does that mean I am giving fascists ‘coochie’?
Why don’t you believe the woman has inherent value and rights then? Even if I did think a lump of cells had human rights, nobody has the right to force a human to risk their lives for another human outside the womb, so why do you believe the government should force a human to risk their lives for an unborn one in the womb?
But he’s not saying women’s life has no inherent value…
Okay this argument is hypocritical AF. If this was about the fetus not the women, you wouldn’t support an outright ban. Twins are being killed because of you. Children are being forced to carry because of you. Women are dying because of you. In some cases you are forcing women against their will to attempt to save a lump of cells that is already dead. If the government forced you to risk your life for an unborn child that wasn’t attached to you, you would flip shit. If the government forced men to take responsibility for an unborn fetus in any way, you would flip shit.
You don’t respect the autonomy or rights of a woman if you believe in forcing decisions on them about their body, hard stop. There is no wiggle room for you to argue that the fetus matters, because you wouldn’t apply that to any other situation in life. Stop acting like it’s the moral choice when it’s literally forcing woman to risk their lives against their will. Those women are already alive, why don’t their rights and lives matter to you?
The women in the court? Not sure who you’re referring to or maybe I’m missing some information here. I thought they were women who became pregnant, were denied abortions, went through some heinous shit, and are suing the state in protest of a law that most people already don’t agree with. Kind of missing the ‘nutjob’ part of your thoughts…
What an odd hot take.
I know, American politics is so littered partisan hacks that anything that doesn’t align with liberal or conservative propaganda seems odd.
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How are these women unhinged nut jobs?
