• Varyk@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    24
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Is this a “the right can’t meme” thing? Liberals are opposed to the current Russia-ukraine war and Israeli-palestine war and are currently supporting the newest civil rights movement.

    • Vespair@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      24
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Nah I think it’s just the same snake-in-the-grass right wing propaganda bullshit that infects every leftist space online to sow complacency and disempower us with apathy by trying to convince us that the comparative left-ish-leaning party is the same or worse than the right so as to maintain the hold on power the right has. It’s bullshit anti-leftist wolf-in-sheep’s-clothing rhetoric. Same as it always was.

      Edit: typos.

      • ElcaineVolta@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I don’t know OP, or the OOP, but I read this as criticizing liberals from the left which is something many leftists engage in all the time, I know I do

        • Vespair@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          (Before I type all of this, important caveat: I am only going to be using “liberal” in the American context, meaning a milquetoast democrat. Save all of your “bUt AcTuAlLy ClAsSiCaL lIbErAlIsM” for where it’s actually fucking relevant; don’t bring that shit to me)

          Yes, but you do it mostly because you’ve been taken in by these wolves. Obviously critique and push actual leftism on liberals and Democrats, but the leftism tribalism absolutely benefits the right.

          Liberals aren’t leftists and we shouldn’t be complacent and settle for the liberal Democrat platform, but we also have to acknowledge that given the options the Democrats are absolutely the current harm-reductive choice. And importantly, unlike the fucking chudshits on the right, liberals are the demographic that can actually be reasoned with, educated, and brought into the light.

          Anyone trying to tell you associating with or attempting to convert liberals is a waste of time is somebody who is only interested in stifling leftist growth.

          You don’t have to agree with them, but conflating them with the wastes of flesh on the right is disingenuous as fuck as absolutely motivated by agenda, either intentionally or unintentionally as matter of coercion.

    • teft@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I’m guessing they mean liberal in the classical sense and not liberal in the liberal/conservative meaning of the current US political parties.

      • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        They’re talking about the current wars and the current civil rights movements, so that wouldn’t make sense anyway.

        “Whigs sure hate Instagram”.

    • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Liberals have come down hard in uncritical support of the nazi militias in Ukraine and on the Israeli side of the Palestinian struggle for freedom. Both are the pro-war stances.

      • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        Liberals have been against the Russian invasion from day one, and Russia is driving that war.

        Most people have been ignorant of the Israel and Palestine conflicts until recently, and most western media glorifies the IDF because it’s a stabilizing democratic force in a notoriously anti-west region, but liberals are all upset with the current Palestinian genocide.

        There’s are liberal pro-Palestinian anti-hamas civil rights movement right now.

        • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          Liberals have been against the Russian invasion from day one, and Russia is driving that war.

          The Ukrainian Nazi militias (Combat 18, Azov and so on) have been terrorizing the Russians and Roma and Jews for years prior with funding from the Ukrainian ministry of interior. Which is why the Russians in Donbas rebelled. Russia then came to their aid.

          the IDF [is] a stabilizing democratic force in a notoriously anti-west region

          No, the IOF is an army enforcing Apartheid and furthering Palestinian genocide.

          Youre the exact kind of lib the meme is talking about.

          • Varyk@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            I’m against both current wars and for the current civil rights movements, so you’re 0 for 3 there.

            By your logic, you’re the lib the meme is talking about.

            Your Russian propaganda is b*******, russia invaded and tried to annex the rest of Ukraine the same way that they annexed Crimea because Putin is a cowardly, greedy dictator.

            And you’re just agreeing with me about the IDF, so thanks, I guess.

  • WarmApplePieShrek@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    What is opposing a war?

    People call themselves war opponents when they oppose invading Vietnam, which is good.

    People also call themselves war opponents when they oppose Ukraine defending itself, which is bad. They support Russia invading Ukraine. They support wars except the ones when the US is invading.

    • avrachan@lemmings.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      nobody opposes to Ukraine defending itself.

      Anti-War stance involves opposing Russia for invading Ukraine along with blood thirsty neoliberals like Victoria nuland who will sacrifice Ukrainian people to advance US strategic interest. They want this war to go on as long as they can make it go on. no price is too small.

      • DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        No one buys what you’re selling. Russia can end the war today, but they won’t, because they’re run by a literally evil kleptocratic dictator.

  • BaroqueInMind@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    I’m liberal and support trans/gay rights, woman’s body autonomy, social umbrellas for the poor and unhoused, legalization of recreational drugs, but I also like guns and desire all minorities who have no agency to own them, as well as support all wars against bullies because pacifism does nothing to stop them otherwise. Where do I stand? I guess I’ll go fuck myself then.

    • underisk@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I think that makes you a leftist who hasn’t yet realized that liberalism doesn’t want many of those things.

        • underisk@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          They care about them in a performative way. The minute it stands in their way or they can’t use it as a tool to get your support to gain or maintain power they will immediately drop the act. Before Oberfell even Obama wouldn’t give a clear statement of support for gay marriage because it was seen as political poison.

      • Psychodelic@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Most Americans still don’t realize there’s a difference. I’ve been hoping the recent conflict in the Middle East would wake some people up to the major differences between libs and leftists - it sure did for me.

        Leftists are literally losing their job for not supporting Israel and yet liberals are still out here confused about what’s even going on.

    • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Those are all very liberal-minded interests and there’s nothing really wrong with them. The left largely agrees as well but would go further to the structural causes for why these issues are important, questioning the very economic and material arrangements for which these issues are contingent on. IE why does our economic system require people to be poor? What are the class dynamics behind these issues etc.

      Liberalism is the ideology of free markets and individual freedom, but those mechanisms are contingent on exploitation.

    • MajinBlayze@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      That’s the fun thing; go far enough left and find that guns become an important tool for the proletariat to protect itself from the ruling class.

    • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      social umbrellas

      Treat the symptoms not the cause

      support all wars against bullies because pacifism does nothing to stop them otherwise.

      Simplify geopolitics into “bullies”, support the actions of NATO/US as though they’re not “bullies”

      Pretty much liberal yeah

      • lingh0e@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Treat the symptoms not the cause.

        You’ll find that almost all liberals also want to treat the cause, but they are blocked at every step by conservatives and centrists.

      • nixcamic@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Treat the symptoms not the cause

        Treat both. They usually give you a painkiller while setting your bones.

        • oatscoop@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Wait until they find out that there’s a ton of “we don’t know what the underlying cause is” and “we don’t have a cure for that yet” in medicine. In which case you have to do your best treating the symptoms – which is also true outside of the world of medicine.

          Sometimes a temporary fix buys you time to do it right. Sometimes a perfect or even “really good” solution isn’t feasible for myriad reasons: so you do the best with what you have.

          • nixcamic@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            It’s just such a stupid false dichotomy. Give the man the fish and teach him to fish. It’s a lot easier to learn on a full stomach.

            • trafficnab@lemmy.ca
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              You expect leftists to do anything but idly daydream about the day that a socialist revolution finally and magically falls into their laps?

    • madcaesar@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      0
      ·
      1 year ago

      I agree with all of those except I don’t like guns. Don’t want nothing to do with them, and those that do should be required to take mental and physical competency tests as well as mandatory registration. I wouid also impose a minimum 5 year prison sentence for letting one of your guns fall into somone else’s hands owning a gun should come with massive responsibility to keep the gun secure.

      • BaroqueInMind@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        0
        ·
        1 year ago

        Similar to nuclear proliferation, it doesn’t matter if you don’t like nukes because if your neighbor simply has only one of them, then they can leverage it to force you to do things against your own interests with the threat of your complete destruction.

        Your recourse is to bend over and let them fuck you, or build/buy your own nukes to deter them bullies. Pandora’s box is open; guns are necessary and are never going away. Either you arm up the helpless to allow them to speak at equal footing using them as deterrence or let them slowly and eventually be destroyed by the growing intolerant majority.

        • TrousersMcPants@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          1 year ago

          So everyone just gets guns? I should carry a gun with me at all times and live in fear of my neighbor? This is an absurd viewpoint, guns don’t deter shit, if someone wants to shoot me, owning a gun won’t stop them. Nuclear deterrence doesn’t work with gun ownership because if I own a gun, and you shoot me, I’m not shooting back because I’m dead.

          • Facebones@reddthat.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            0
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            This.

            Gun fetishists live in this wild west fantasy where someone planning on shooting is going to slowly and deliberately approach while announcing their intentions so you can respond and have a showdown ensuring only the gunliest gunner wins. If somebody’s going to shoot you, you’re just going to get shot - probably before you’re even aware, or at least without sufficient preparation time to grab your gun or pull your gun and aim.

            These people just tell themselves fairy tales to justify their hoarding.

  • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    You can see this all the time with Hollywood liberal values. All the gay stereotyping and jokes through the 90s then all of a sudden they’re patting themselves on the back for being the arbiters of social progress.