EDIT: no, I don’t sympathize with nazis (neither I sympathize with those who call everyone nazi when they’re losing an argument ;)
Yes, let’s enter discussion with the literal Nazis so we can try to understand them. There might be nuance to their calls for mass genocide.
Fuck off OP.
It’s funny how people always use play it like “oh, it’s just differing opinions” when what they’re actually defending is indefensible malarkey like nazis and tankies. They know if they made a meme saying we should “try to understand” nazis and tankies, they’d be downvoted to oblivion. And so they hide behind a shield of “differing opinions”.
These cretins have a right to post nazi and tankie shit on their own instances – them’s the beauty of the fediverse. But I also have a right to not want hate speech, genocide denial, and Hitler/Stalin/Mao simps polluting my feed. It’s not mere “differing opinions” when one person’s opinion is “Holodomor didn’t happen, and if it did, the Ukrainians deserved it” or “Holocaust didn’t happen, and if it did, the Jews deserved it” or whatever apologia they wanna peddle.
It’s funny how people always use play it like “oh, it’s just differing opinions” when what they’re actually defending is indefensible malarkey like nazis and tankies. They know if they made a meme saying we should “try to understand” nazis and tankies, they’d be downvoted to oblivion. And so they hide behind a shield of “differing opinions”.
There’s an actual term for this: Motte and Bailey. One of many hallmarks of disingenuous shitbirds.
Another horseshoe theory take… Last I checked the “tankies” saved everyone from the Nazis. Let’s equate genocidal/colonial violence to defend capital, with the efforts to establish socialism. LOL
Last I checked the “tankies” signed a non-aggression pact with the Nazis and only became a reluctant ally because they were betrayed.
If you follow your own link to a list of non-aggression pacts, Wikipedia lists 9 of them, most predating the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Other countries were signing these pacts with Nazi Germany. Not to mention the USSR attempted to create alliances with other European powers, but was rejected. The writing was on the wall that war was heading their way..
I can’t read the first link as it’s behind a paywall. The second link talked about how Roosevelt tried to establish cordial relations with the Soviet Union but was hampered by their refusal to acknowledge debts owed by the Tsarist government, refusal to stop spreading propaganda within the US, and the killing of Leningrad Communist party boss Sergey Kirov which " launched the first of the “Great Purges” that led to the death or imprisonment of millions of Soviet citizens as the Stalinist regime liquidated any potential critics of the government. The wide scope and public nature of the purges horrified both American diplomatic personnel stationed in the Soviet Union, and the world at large."
Gee I wonder why the USSR had such a tough go at getting allies…
HiTlEr WaSn’T aLl BaD
Hitler wasn’t all bad. After all, he did kill Hitler.
Fuck that. Defederate all Nazis.
More like de-head-erate all nazis lmao
Nazi is a communist term for delegitimizing a legitimate sovereign nation. Cope with it. Churchill said so.
This post assumes that a meaningful amount of defed instances are caused by simple lack of agreement. Often, it’s an orthogonal matter - it boils down to instance A actually understanding something about the userbase of instance B and saying “I’m not dealing with this shit, it’ll make the instance worse for its own users”. For example: the typical user of B might be disingenuous, or preach immoral prescriptions, behave like a chimp, or be a bloody stupid piece of trash that should’ve stayed in Reddit to avoid smearing its stupidity everywhere here.
Are instance admins too eager to pull the trigger for defed? Perhaps, in some cases; specially because it handles groups of users instead of individuals. But those cases are better addressed through actual examples, not through a meme talking on generic grounds.
No offense but this is kind of what happens in real life too. Nazi shows up to local bar. Barman or owner doesn’t throw them out. Eventually they invite their friends. It winds up being known a Nazi bar. People who don’t want to associate with Nazis no longer visit the bar. This is why intolerance of the intolerant is a thing.
Funny thing is, the Nazis would use those same guilty by association tactics to silence and crush dissent.
defederate to maintain your very special echo chamber
defederate to stop sh.tjust.works chuds from harassing your comrades in DMs with violent, transphobic and ableist attacksother way around, buddy
Nazis do not deserve to live. I don’t see the problem.
Lmao “try and understand them” fuck off, OP. You’re not fooling anyone. There’s no point trying to understand assholes.
‘people posting stuff you consider harmful’ is not a simple, black and white issue. Anyone who pretends that allowing all opinions has no consequences is full of shit, anyone who claims that tightly policing opinions has no consequences is full of shit.
Like almost everything in life, you will have to navigate a tenuous balance between these two things and you will never know if you got the balance right. You are just a sack of meat doomed to die.
We are getting close to massive life extension/ clinical immortality.
People were saying that about cryogenics.
Humans have a vast body of knowledge about how things work. It’s a shame its dwarfed by the vast body of knowledge we are completely ignorant of.
Much as scientists managed to be surprised that life had evolved to eat garbage in the pacific garbage patch, it seems some will manage to be surprised that when humans eliminate one source of mortality, another inevitably evolves to take advantage of the ever-growing supply of humans.
Lemmy.ml should be sent to purgatory.
Defederating brigaders and trolls is necessary to maintain a healthy community. If your instance is defederated from all major instances, perhaps you should look examine what sort of company you keep.
With that mentality we’ll all become beehaw. The cesspool of don’t look at me funny.
Funny how one instance is the one everyone wants to defederate from.
Currently. Of course in the past it was exploding heads for being Nazis, Lemmygrad for being insufferable tankies, then Burggit for lolicon, now hexbear for being insufferable tankies.
Heck I think Lemmygrad is more tolerable than Hexbear, by a lot.
Do they allow downvotes? Hexbear doesn’t which means everything they disagree with gets a reply with a handful of large emoji.
people hate getting called out for their terrible opinions
Lol is that why hexbear is defederating from so many instances?
Any instance not arguing in good faith gets removed normally.
Why so much drama over fed or defed, just change instances if you don’t agree with your admin
I think where that falls down is if a big community is in X instance, the instance admins have control over that instance
Doesn’t matter what instance you switch to if the communities you participate in are under that instance’s control
Not saying that’s a huge problem yet but it could turn into one and then we get powermods all over again
You’re right of course, but it’s still something that the fediverse is trying to figure out.
If the ‘thing you dont agree’ with is hate speech or shit promotting violence for example that’s the only sane option you have lol
Yes. Tolerance should not extend to intolerance, and intolerance should never be a thing we tolerate.
If it were that simple, then it would be fine.
But the point is, people just start to label anything that whiffs of a different opinion as “intolerance”.
Find me one neoliberal who isn’t promoting violence.
Here’s a comment thread where a Hexbear user said “I hope to kill people like you” because I simply said I supported democratic socialism.
Going on any Hexbear instance people froth over telling anyone right of Karl Marx to “get up against the wall”. You guys are, and will always be, a joke.
Haha, classic Catradora_Stalinism, what a rascal.
She would make a great staffer in the Lubyanka.
She’s probably like 16 dude chill and welcome to the Internet where people fling the most unhinged nonsense at each other without a second thought
An aggressive communist with no sense of how the world works could be a child? You’re the most self aware Hexbear user.
Also lol to “dude chill”. I’m not the one fantasizing about murdering people.
because I simply said I supported democratic socialism.
so you promoted violence first?
i’m failing to see your complaint hereOh silly you.
You said you supported Social Democracy not Democratic Socialism. Dem Socs are well-meaning but idealistic, not optimistic but the political philosophy of idealism. Soc Dems are supporters of a kinder capitalism for the Imperial core but keeping the child slaves mining cobalt in the Congo.
The fact that you think these are the same proves the original posters point that you should read theory. They were harsh but you were implying that keeping exploitation of the third world is preferable to socialism.
Dude you still don’t stop worker exploitation, don’t solve the contradiction of working and capitalist classes, don’t end imperialism or colonialism (social democracy outsources exploitation to the third world)
Ok let me know how your method works out
You said you supported Social Democracy not Democratic Socialism.
What a terrible mistake to make! Perhaps you should have assumed it was the correct orientation of the two words that are spelled exactly the same.
The fact that you think these are the same proves the original posters point that you should read theory.
I have, but thanks for the suggestion.
The abolishinists were mean to me. : 😭😭
The tankies were being tankies, not unexpected.
youre getting into arguments where you don’t know what the words mean, and then acting indignant when people point that out
Assuming people are using words in the way they are widely and commonly accepted to mean (I mean, just look at Wikipedia for an easy starting point) is not a bad thing?
I’m innudated with endless notifications from you dweebs, mistakes happen.
What a terrible mistake to make! Perhaps you should have assumed it was the correct orientation of the two words that are spelled exactly the same.
Your beef is with the English Language not me. How is it my fault that you misidentified yourself? Funnily enough, you still don’t identify your actual political position. It’s clear that the only political position you’d take is what gives you an advantage in the argument. Fucking debatebros lol.
I have, but thanks for the suggestion.
Reading so much theory that you confuse two different political ideologies. Sometimes I read so much theory that that I claim to be a monarchist when I really mean to say I’m an anti-monarchist. Obviously the other person should have understood what I meant. Your literally on a communication medium that allows you to plan and edit your comments. You have no excuse for making this grade school mistake.
Debatebro? That’s what Hexbear does best.
I would actually love to engage in good faith discussions, but Hexbear users only operate in bad faith, particularly by sealioning. Like clockwork, you don’t engage in ideas but rather give reading assignments.
I’ve read Das Kapital and agree with virtually all the premises about how society is unfair to those who actually generate the surplus value and think that we need to fix a system that breaks cyclically, as Karl Marx correctly predicted in volume I. The only solutions I’ve seen presented are a total revolution a la 1917, which occured before globalization. Anything close to this in the current globalized world will kill at minimum hundreds of millions globally due to interdependence on products that Marx would consider “needs”, such as medications and medical equipment like dialysis machines.
The difference between you and me is that I’d rather work to reestablish democracy away from capital interests. I don’t want a dictatorship, I want a functional democracy. Propaganda is often used to disillusion the working class from democracy, and if you don’t vote in elections then you are clearly part of the problem.
Edit: Lmao. Citing"theory" gets crickets from the people who endlessly say “you just haven’t read theory”. It’s like they don’t know what to do with someone who reads to understand, rather than “reading” just to virtue signal.
It’s intriguing how everyone that views themselves as moderates/liberals forget (or are unacquainted with it) about the paradox of tolerance.
Tolerance implies everyone has a right to express their ideas and you want that. You want everything out in the open, so you can pick at it, dismantle it and render it pitiful, ridiculous and useless.
You want the intolerant crying out loud that you are intolerant as that means you are doing the right thing. The intolerant want silence, forced, while the tolerant want noise, anger, tension.
Remember that anything worthwhile needs to be fought for. Don’t regret being vocal and harsh towards intolerance.
That is a pretty ironic comment because that is not what the paradox of tolerance is at all. The paradox of tolerance is that intolerance needs to be suppressed for tolerance to exist, since tolerance can’t exist alongside intolerance.
The paradox is that tolerance needs to be intolerant towards intolerance in order for a tolerant society to exist, literally the exact opposite of what you wrote.
I’m so glad that the comments have (mostly) finally unified in agreement that defederating Nazis and other hideous people is the right move.
Unless the nazi wears red, then let him spew his holocaust denial because “western propaganda imperialism butwhatabout they deserved it it never happened.”
I’m not up to date on the drama. Who got defeded?
What a simple, stupid argument.
You can’t enter a discussion with somebody who’s just trying to bombard you into submission. OP is wildly ignorant or just somebody sad they’re being defederated on a different account.
