- cross-posted to:
- games@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- games@lemmit.online
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One million people playing at 1080p and 60fps
Nah, some do be playing at 1440/2160p
Damn I heard you can inject ray tracing and even “mod” the game.
I really don’t understand these people. I’m currently playing the game and love it, not once has my experience made me even think about the resolution and frame rate. I swear that’s all PC gamers care about, how crispy a game looks, even if it’s a pile of shit.
Yes, pc gamers only care about graphics, that’s why pc is the biggest indie platform, because indie games are known for the best graphics
Indie games in 8K though.
The James Webb Space Telescope is my favorite indie game
People have given you a lot of snarky or rude answers, which isn’t warranted. I partially agree with you, but partially disagree too.
For ToTK, High resolution doesn’t matter a ton because the game is well optimized for its intended platform, for playing on a switch can still give you great vistas and pictures. This is where I agree with you.
However, the difference between 30 and 60 fps makes a big difference in this game. Controls, motion, and fights all feel a lot smoother and natural at 60 fps. And while vistas and pictures still look great, a lot of the game has additional beauty when in motion. The improved frame rate does make a difference and can enhance the experience for a game that deserves it. The people who made this game clearly put a lot of thought and creativity into and the switch isn’t always able to deliver that experience to the players. Think of it like going to an indoor play with sunglasses on; it may still be enjoyable to but some of the experience is lost.
The original comment was pretty snarky so I see about as much snark as I’d expect, tbh.
I mean this as nicely as possible but if the difference between 30fps tops and steady 60 isn’t obvious to you, you’re either ignorant of what you’re missing, or you’re too casual for it to matter
I mean this as nicely as possible but if his being able to notice a difference in graphic fidelity is that important to you, you’re either a maladjusted antisocial weirdo, or just an egotistical twat who has to be right 100% of the time
fps isn’t graphical fidelity, it’s litterally how it feels to play. It defines your whole experience.
Yep, on my first PC I chose to limit my resolution to 720p and low settings if necessary to hit 60 fps over 1080/30 higher settings. So quite the opposite of being a graphics snob.
My comment didn’t mention resolution or quality of graphics at all. I’m only talking about framerate, which has a major impact on how responsive and fluid the controls feel. All else being equal, a higher framerate typically just feels nicer to play. Compare Super Mario 64 (30fps) to Super Smash Bros. (60fps).
Removed by mod
I’m late to the switch party, as I’m just messing with one for the first time since Christmas. I’ve been a PC gamer for decades. Decided to try out breath of the wild, and I’m having a blast with it. That being said, I would be lying if I said there weren’t times where the frame rate dropped so low it’s distracting. This new one may not have that issue, but I’m betting it’s similar. I would absolutely be interested in emulating the game on better hardware. Hardware I already have at home.
You may not understand this side of the argument, and that’s fair. I also don’t understand yours. If someone wants to improve their experience with the game, it costs me nothing to give them a smile and a thumbs up for enjoying their own time/money however they like.
I think it’s probably worse. They added in new mechanics, which probably means higher CPU load. I’ve heard reports of poor framerates on Switch, but can’t confirm because I didn’t bother getting it (I didn’t like BotW that much, I prefer more classic Zelda games).
If it was available on PC, I’d probably get it because playing a BotW-like game at 60fps at higher res may be worth it. I’m probably not getting it for Switch though, because I’ve already decided that experience isn’t worth the cost.
They’re frustrated because the game could easily be better if it wasn’t forced to run on a tablet. So easily in fact, that it’s just a button, and it’s unlocked. It’s right there, but Nintendo makes more money if you can only play it on their tablet.
Again though, this game is fantastic, and if you can’t enjoy it because of something that trivial, then I feel sorry for you. You must have hated every n64 game or any video game released before 2020 if you can’t enjoy it unless it has top of the line, current gen graphics
People were playing 60 fps minimum on most games before 2020. What era are you stuck in that you think 60 fps was a difficult target before 2020 haha. Even consoles have moved onto 120 fps options now.
I played TotK at launch on my Switch and also loved it.
The point you’re missing is that, whilst the game is already good on original hardware, the game is better when emulated and running at the full 1080p 60fps.
Think of it like Nintendo is giving you a ice cream sundae, and the emulator is adding extra toppings.
Also man, try to get out of the habit of doing the “Oh you like pancakes? Why do you hate waffles?” thing, it’s just combative. I mean unless you’re looking for an argument then by all means go ham
Never said I can’t enjoy it. I beat it on Switch. It was great.
I’m saying a better game is available, and to deny yourself that game solely because of Nintendo lawyers is dumb.
You really don’t understand how a crisper image and smoother controls can’t enhance the experience? Like when you have the option of watching a video at 1080p or 4k why opt for 480p or less? And that’s not even a video game.
I literally make this choice almost every day. Why? Because I can have either my dvd player or the ps3 hooked up. I do not like using the latter for playback so I’m watching the DVD version if I have it. I’d have to run the calculations but I’m pretty sure at least 75% of my collection is DVD only. I get whatever is cheapest for most movies since the quality only matters for a small amount. Office Space isn’t any better at 1080p or 4k.
Doesn’t really apply to streaming since I don’t even pay for 4k and I’m pretty sure 1080p is default unless the show isn’t available at that res.
By that logic you couldn’t enjoy a movie like the godfather or gone with the wind prior to 4k technology because it wasn’t clean enough for you. I bet you also love watching old films with true motion and grain smoothing
Haha cinemas existed. Old people watched old movies at home on 4:3 ratio with tiny screens. It’s not that it can’t be enjoyed, but what we have now with restored aspect ratio and better scans is an improved product.
Most of those movies were never meant to be watched with “improved technology”. Just like how ps1 games look trash on a 4k tv
Haha. First off PS1 games were made with CRTs in mind which don’t use pixels to begin with so a 720p or 1080p screen would be terrible. Which lets be real. Outside of hardcore enthusiasts the average person isn’t going to have a heavy CRT in their house.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea6tw-gulnQ
And actually 4k oleds are great for emulating CRT effects with CRT Shaders over lower resolution non CRT devices and more resolution would make the effect better.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yNmJ0n-QMCY
And film actually…
35mm film is thought to have a digital resolution of 4K, whereas 70mm Imax is closer to 12K and 35mm Imax film has a digital resolution of 6K. Most movies will be edited and colored and enhanced digitally, regardless of how they were shot. (Called digital intermediate and usually at 2K resolution). Even Imax projection systems cannot play back anything higher than 4K, even when certain movies are scaled back to a digital or film print for distribution.
So yes old films on new TVs are definitely closer to the cinematic experience in theaters than CRTs. Not to mention the wider aspect ratio of films leading to content not being cut like they were for old TVs.
Not sure why you are so resistant to the idea of using better technology. If you are that resistant to 60 fps+ and higher resolutions you can stick with it, but other people will opt for the better performance and visuals if it’s an option.
What a weird hill to die on.
How can someone else’s experience and enjoyment of something differ from my own criteria?!
Not least because switch was old hardware when it launched, it’s aged hardware at this point, and equivalent games on other platforms have far better performance.
I’m just saying, PC gamers only care about graphics. Switch costs like $300 a gaming PC costs like $3k, why would Nintendo give up it’s exclusivity to please your tiny niche market, a market of unpleasable gamers as PC gamers are known to be.
Forgive me if I say that might sound like a biased take.
Personally, leaving aside the legal argument of piracy, I would be fine with paying Nintendo the money but playing on my steam deck and having stuff like steam input and having my save games for future PCs. I haven’t played TotK yet but the 90+ hours I put in BotW is locked to the switch which I sold after getting a steam deck. I don’t care for high end PC performance.
You dont need a 3k gaming pc to get started. PC has lots of options, thats part of the appeal.
Steam alone has as many monthly active users as the switch has lifetime sales. Its not a tiny niche market.
Its also not unpleasable. There are certain technical standards, sure. But that is true for all consoles as well.
Its not juat about looking nice. Sub-30 fps is genuinely uncomfortable to many people. You aren’t sensitive to it, good for you.
game is 30 fps and looks like crap in my opinion. 30 may be the minumum playable framerate but it still looks choppy as hell and feels unresponsive to play which you can notice after experiencing as low as 60 fps. and the landscapes have no saving grace either, anything 5 meters away has a ton of LOD applied and just looks bad.
In my experience switch doesn’t even do 30 fps locked well with 20s not being rare in lot of games. Some exceptions being Bayonetta games that actually hit 60.
lol imagine thinking metrics make a game good.
You’re perfect for middle manglement.
I am not sure what you mean by metrics but bad performance makes a game feel bad to play, a game barely running at or below 30 fps (I remind again 30 is the minimum number of frames for it to look fluid at all). Not just that but the input latency is gonna be terrible. Paying full price for a game on it’s own console and than have it run badly is a “fuck you” to the consumers but you are still insisting that the crap they have shitted out tastes good because you don’t have anything els to compare it with.
For your sake I hope you’re a bot.
I really don’t understand these people. I’m currently owning an Honda civic in the default color Satin Silver Metallic and love it, not once has my experience made me even think about changing the paint or using decals. I swear that’s all car enthusiasts care about, how crispy their cars look, even if it’s a pile of shit.
People have preferences, man. And they don’t settle for the default option, even/especially when corporations try to enforce them.
Damn you made the hivemind angry
Tears of Nintendo
“the harm caused by this software was “manifest and irreparable.””
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Tears_of_the_Kingdom
"More than 10 million copies of Tears of the Kingdom were sold in its first three days of release, making it the fastest-selling game in The Legend of Zelda franchise, as well as the fastest selling Nintendo game in the Americas with over four million copies sold in the US alone.[50][51]
Tears of the Kingdom sold over 2.24 million copies within its first three days of release in Japan, 1.1 million being physical copies.[52][53]
By December 2023, the game had sold 20.28 million copies worldwide.[54]
In August 2023, it was reported that the sales of Tears of the Kingdom may have boosted the gross domestic product of Japan, with a 2.8% increase in consumer spending in the semi-durable goods sector during April to August 2023, which included video games.[55]"
the harm caused by this software was “manifest and irreparable.”
Except it’s arguably not, because it’s not like the 1 million copies of the game was stolen and could not be sold anymore. The game is still available for sale, and it is still making them money - all people did was pirate a single copy of the game 1 million times.
Also, if they sold 20.8 million units, and assuming every single instance of pirating was done by people who did not buy the game (read: lots of people bought a legal copy and “pirated” it anyways for better performance on Yuzu), they lost out on 5% revenue as of this time of writing.
Very sad Nintendo couldn’t sell another $60 million worth of games /s
Yup. I’d buy a digital copy of TotK if I could play it on my PC, but Nintendo doesn’t offer that, so I either need to buy it for Switch, or pirate it. I found BotW kinda lame (I much prefer Skyward Sword and Link’s Awakening), so I’m not motivated to buy it for Switch, especially since I’ve seen reports of mediocre performance.
So yeah, I don’t feel bad for Nintendo at all here. If they made their games available on PC for a reasonable price, I’m sure many would buy their games twice, once on Switch and once on PC. Their loss I guess…
Im not in bed with Nintendo here, as I very much disagree with their aggressive stance against emulators and such - but I do believe that your argument ‘they don’t release it for PC so I’m gonna pirate’ doesn’t hold up. You can still support the people creating the games (which give you lots of hours of entertainment) by buying a copy for the Swtich. Some countries even allow you to back up your game cartridge and play it on PC so you’d be completely within your rights even.
I never said I’d pirate, I said I’m not going to buy the game.
I’d only be within my rights if I actually backed up the game, but I don’t have a rooted Switch, so that’s not an option for be currently. It’s easier to just not buy the game.
Article states that the 1M copies were downloaded before the game even came out. There’s certainly an argument to be made about lost revenue there.
But of course, Yuzu is in no way responsible, and you could argue the majority of downloads weren’t intending to buy anyway, so lost revenue is likely very small.
I feel like everyone is missing the line that says “before it came out”. However, I find that hard to believe that 1 million people played a pirated copy before the release date and i can’t remember any leaked gameplay or screenshots.
deleted by creator
Nope, 2 weeks before tears of the kingdoms worldwide May 12 release, someone uploaded it to torrents.
It was actually leaked two weeks in advance…
Can’t even blame emulation as the main culprits playing it either with first gen switches being able to be jailbroken and hardware mods existing for current ones.
I do think Yuzu should win. I’m in favor of emulation. I just read all the comments being like “I only emulated after I bought it for the 1080p 60fps”. Which wasnt in line with what the article was asserting.
People streamed the game on twitch for weeks prior to it being released
Oh my, that’s terrible. If anyone were to tell me however one could do something so dastardly, I would totally take active steps to avoid ever pirating the game.
Download an emulator and find a torrent for the game. It’s pretty easy to do, and you get better quality. I haven’t played TotK, but I did do this for Pokémon Arceus. I knew I’d hate it, but I wanted to see where it was going. It’s a pretty shit game. Do not recommend.
If anyone else wants to try Pokemon Legends Arceus, Here are a few Mods i would recommend:
- 60 FPS Mod (Don’t use the Nexus Mods one, its outdated, also this mod will double the battle speed, it’s impossible to prevent this at the moment)
- [Comprehensive HD Character & Clothing Texture Pack ] (https://gamebanana.com/mods/357717)
- Xbox Icons
- Sky & Moon Improvement Mod
- [AI Upscaled Terrain Textures] (https://gamebanana.com/mods/354194)
- [No Terrain Reflections] (https://gamebanana.com/mods/355082) (Make sure to install AI Upscaled textures first and then overwrite the files with this one)
Important: You need to use Yuzu, the latest Version of Ryujinx won’t work because you NEED to unlock 6/8GB Ram in the emulators setting’s. For some reason’s this won’t work in Ryujinx but in Yuzu it just works fine!
Gameplay Mods Vanilla Style:
- Max Draw Distance for Pokemon NPCs and Trees
- [Max Animation Distance] (https://www.nexusmods.com/pokemonlegendsarceus/mods/3)
- [More Wild Pokemon] (https://www.nexusmods.com/pokemonlegendsarceus/mods/7)
- [Wyrdeer Remastered] (https://www.nexusmods.com/pokemonlegendsarceus/mods/31)
- [Shaymin and Darkrai Spawn Without Old Save Data] (https://www.nexusmods.com/pokemonlegendsarceus/mods/32)
- [Improved Pokemon De-Spawn Radius] (https://www.nexusmods.com/pokemonlegendsarceus/mods/30)
Alternative to all this Gameplay Mods, you could also use this Big Overhaul Mod Pokemon Legends Arceus Plus But I prefer the more vanilla style Gameplay.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Pirated, or downloaded a back up of a game they bought a physical copy of?
All the people I know who emulated it also bought it in this case, because emulation was objectively a better experience for the game.
I bought it and played in on the switch, myself, but if I ever did another playthrough I’d want to higher res of emulation.
That’s technically legal right? Kinda like ripping a CD?
IANAL, depending on your jurisdiction, downloading someone else’s backup of something can be illegal. Backing up your own physical copy and using that is very often legal.
Usually its the uploading or distributing thats the illegal part.
Ripping the game from your own system/cartridge is legal, downloading an identical copy from the internet is not.
Source?
The DMCA.
Pirated in this case as they’re talking about the leak that happened before it was released, so no one owned a copy of it at that point.
I love it when companies think the (often invented) number of pirated copies has any meaningful correlation to lost revenue.
My girlfriend and I have one Nintendo Switch. We share it. But the only modern Nintendo games I play are the Legend of Zelda series. Since Breath of the Wild, when a new one came out, we’d buy it right away, and then I’d end up placing a copy on my PC to play so we could play together.
If Nintendo thinks I’m gonna buy a game twice just to play at the same time as my partner, when we only have the one console, think again. If Nintendo thinks someone who only likes one game is gonna buy a whole second console, they’re out of their minds.
What I do own is a Steam Deck, because Steam is a platform first and I can play my games on my fancy PC at home and on multiple devices. My Steam Deck can even play non-steam games great too!
The second Nintendo makes a PC store that let’s me play their games on my other hardware, I’ll start buying that second copy of all our games solely for the convenience of it. Until then they can suck an egg.
Yup, if Nintendo sold their games for PC, I’d probably buy some games twice. The Switch is really good for couch MP, so I’ll still buy Mario Kart, Mario Party, etc for the Switch. It’s okay for SP games, but I honestly prefer my Steam Deck, so I almost never buy third party titles for Switch.
I spend $100-150/year on Nintendo stuff, and I spend well more than that on Steam. If Nintendo first party games worked on PC, I’d probably double the amount I buy from Nintendo.
That was mostly me. I put a copy on a clean 2tb hard drive and repeatedly hit Ctrl-A Ctrl-C Ctrl-V. Then when it was full I pressed Ctrl+A and Delete and started the process all over. I went mad with power and don’t even know how many copies I stole.
Consider that your warning, Nintendo. Shut down Yuzu and I’ll activate the batch script.
This goes to show that people want to play Nintendo’s games but don’t want to get a switch, Nintendo has a big opportunity in untapped market potential for PC gamers
They’d never open up to the PC market. Their whole business is based on selling their propreitary hardware.
Also, that would open the floodgates for modding. Nintendo hates modding.
But their switch is crap. Breaks constantly, is low power, the software is painful (IMO), games are expensive, and save game backup is a subscription.
You don’t have to list all the highlight features Nintendo uses as selling points we know what a switch is
My experience:
- never breaks
- low power - irrelevant for the games we get for it
- software is fine
- save game backup - I don’t need it
Here’s where I’m disappointed:
- parental controls - need to use an app for most features, and they’re still disappointing; I just want what the Steam Deck has
- games are expensive - I’d spend far more if games were cheaper; net result is I use my Steam Deck and PC far more, the Switch is just for exclusives
But that’s about it. If they sold games for PC, they’d get more of my money, especially if I could swap between PC and Switch. I spend far more on games for my Steam Deck than for my Switch (I get like 2-3 Switch games, and like 20+ Steam games per year).
Nah TOTK runs like garbage on the switch compared to it’s potential you can say it ‘doesnt matter’ but it’s a mess. I played for a couple hours on my actual switch but got so annoyed with the horrendous aliasising of shadows and jagged camera movement that I stopped and spent a couple days of free time setting up yuzu on my PC. The difference is NIGHT and DAY! You are just sitting in Nintendo’s cave watching shadows on the wall if you think it doesn’t matter. The difference is in fact enormous it just might not matter to you.
IIRC it runs worse than BotW which is kind of shocking to me. I mean, yeah the game is much larger in scope, but it runs on the same engine, and you’d think they would have been able to optimize the hell out of it.
I started my TotK playthrough a few weeks ago and I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been taken out of the experience when the FPS dips below like 10. And this is with no action happening in the scene. Not to take anything away from the overall product—the game is magnificent—but I’m really curious as to what their lower bound was in terms of acceptable performance.
I haven’t been bothered by any shadows, and I think the camera is quite nice (so far), but I’m right there with you regarding emulation. Pretty soon I’m gonna try to dump my own cart and get it working on a more capable machine. I don’t need 4K res, or AA, or texture filtering. Just let me get a little immersed without poor hardware standing in my way. And if I want to play it on the go, I’ll use my Deck.
BotW was mostly tolerable for me, though some parts felt a less smooth. But I honestly didn’t like the game all that much, so when TotK was released, I bought Skyward Sword and Link’s Awakening instead and enjoyed them much more than BotW. Both of those run fine, and while I don’t know FPS, they’re probably stable 30FPS.
I almost always play docked though, and it runs on my 4k TV (so upscaling). The art style of most Nintendo games look fine when upscaled, so I’m more concerned about smoothness of the gameplay. If TotK doesn’t run at 30FPS stable when docked, I’m not interested at all. I’m already not particularly interested in the general game design (I like dungeons and boss fights, and BotW was disappointing in both), so I don’t see much reason to go out of my way to get a pleasant experience.
I feel ya. The two most recent titles are anything but the traditional Zelda experience. I do love open-world games though, so I’m cool with both of them. But I do miss the classic Zelda adventure game, where every location has its own theme music and more emphasis is placed on the temples/dungeons. It’s a shame Aonuma said that the future of the series is open-world, but honestly it’s amazing that they’ve been able to keep it fairly fresh, if a bit formulaic, for 30+ years.
That’s fair. It is popular for a reason, even if I don’t see it myself.
What nintendo hears
Breaks constantly - Money
Low power - Less costs
Software is painful - Less costs?
Games are expensive - Money
Game save backup as a service - MONEY
I still think the amount of money they’d generate from expanding their sales platforms would outweigh that philosophy, but I’d like to see the numbers as well
Past experience has shown that you’re probably correct. There are lots of people who pirate games, but there are more who will pay for them if they’re good. Many do both.
Nintendo is not ready for the Mario cast naked mods. They most likely never will. I’m surprised there is even any Nintendo IP hentai floating around at all, really.
Can’t say I blame them for that, really.
From a business prospective, If your whole idea is to sell your console as often as possible it’s not a good idea to make your games work on every platform. Console exclusives are a big part of the selling strategie.
Also, as always, if you own the money you should buy a game to show support (especially if it’s an indie title). But when it’s an old game owned by a company who still thinks we are in the 90s. Which dosen’t want to sell the game to you anymore but at the same time forbids everyone from making a copy of the said game, you should absolutely pirate it.
It’s sometimes the only form of game preservation we have.
If we somehow discover a second library of Alexandria and it also turns out that infringes on a Nintendo IP, I have no doubt that Nintendo will burn it down immediately.
Let’s say a Nintendo switch is $300, and a game is $60, that means if 5 people buy one of their games outside of their console theyve already made back their money. I don’t think that out of 5 people 1 person would be willing to buy a switch just to get a game they want, it’s most likely like 1/20. Which means they’d end up making more money. This is just my speculation of course
This could be the case if we would talk about one game. But the whole Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby, Metroid and etc. Franchises are exclusive on Nintendo and they are objektiv good games (maybe pokemon has fallen of but it’s still a money grab) you don’t have that many exclusives on PS4 and 5 and Xbox one and X/S together. And it shows. The Switch and Switch light still outsells Sony and Microsoft consoles.
My friend group got switches mainly because of pokemon. But I dropped it for other games because Gamefreak underdeliverd IMHO.
Also we know that Nintendo is overprotective about their IPs. I guess they think that if they solely sell their games on their closed system they can decrease the chance of pirating. And it’s not far fetched because you need a decent PC to emulate and play switch games. Also know how on how to set it up. (which why I belive, that the onemillion is just a fantasy number from Nintendo in this case)
Of course they would make a fortune selling their old games on pc. But it’s Nintendo we talking about, they are super conservative about things like that.
I own a switch, I bought the game, Game runs like shit, Instead of returning it, I play it on yuzu
I’m sure if they had their way anyone who backwards engineers a system like polymega or analogue would be next on their hit list.
I actually paid someone to rip my WiiU BotW for me years ago because I like being legit legit, but most people either feel like its morally 100% fine to download a copy if they bought one, or don’t even know that its technically not legal.
Ripping your own ROMs tends to put your system at risk of bricking or being banned from online play. Its just not a desirable thing to do, so fans who care enough about the game to see it run at q higher quality or with lovingly crafted mods are very likely the ones who already purchased the game and are downloading a new copy.
I would love to see Yuzu run a poll to see how many people already purchased the game. Even if its anecdotal, maybe it would prove a point that people are crying out for more content and will go to illegal means to get it
but most people either feel like its morally 100% fine to download a copy if they bought one, or don’t even know that its technically not legal.
Morally speaking, why would backing up your own copy make a difference, assuming you bought a copy in either case?
Morally I would say it depends on how much the legal aspect is valued. Legally (where applicable) you’re supposed to use your own copy of the software to make the rom you use, ensuring you own both the hardware and the game.
Laws should be heavily influenced by what is morally right and wrong, but morality as a concept is not influenced by laws. An individual’s or culture’s sense of morality might be, but if laws are derived from morals then that’s fine.
Questions of morality will have different answers when the context changes, so it may be morally unacceptable in one society to do something and morally acceptable to do the same thing in another. Laws have an influence on morality only insofar as laws have an impact on the context in which actions take place. This would not be because the law prohibits those actions.
Some examples:
- If a law is passed outlawing sharing nonconsensual AI-generated pornography, it should be because it was agreed that doing so is morally wrong. The law being passed doesn’t make it suddenly morally wrong.
- If a law were passed making some completely innocuous action illegal, and frequently punished - say, hand-painting Nintendo or Disney characters on an interior wall in your own house - then posting publicly on someone’s Facebook wall about loving their Princess Peach X Princess Elsa mural would be morally wrong, even though it would have been fine to do that before the law was passed.
The context that we have is that it is illegal (in the US) to:
- distribute copyrighted materials
- download copyrighted materials
- bypass DRM even when making a backup, except for specific purposes. With video games, unless you are circumventing DRM because the auth servers were taken down (inapplicable for the Switch) or solely because you have a physical disability and are patching the game to support other input options (standard keyboard and mouse specifically excluded), then it is still illegal.
So in either case you’d be doing something illegal. But morally, in a situation where you’ve purchased the game and are platform-shifting to an unsupported platform (like the “time-shifting” defense used with VHS recordings, DVRs, etc.), then the laws aren’t really relevant. The laws certainly don’t exist because there’s societal agreement that this type of platform shifting is morally wrong.
The reason the person I replied to had to pay someone to rip his own game for him is because Nintendo makes it difficult to do so. Even if the law were different and allowed those actions, I don’t understand why anyone would think that it makes sense that a corporation can morally obligate their customers (who want to consume their product in a particular way) to perform work with no value add when the customers could get what they want by doing something much easier.
Unless you’re actually causing harm (directly or indirectly) to someone by your actions in one instance but not the other, I don’t see how one option would be morally acceptable and the other morally wrong.
If the game were supported on the other platform, then the context - and potentially the outcome - changes. If Nintendo invested a decent amount of money porting BotW to Android phones and it cost them a decent amount of money to do so, then would it be morally wrong to not support them and to emulate it instead? Would there be an ethical obligation to support them? What if the Android port was terrible - would it be acceptable to buy it, then use the emulated version anyway - and if you’d bought the Android version and were emulating it on Android, would there still be a moral or ethical obligation to purchase the same cart you were emulating? What if Nintendo just licensed or repackaged Yuzu and didn’t actually make any changes to the game, so their investment was minimal?
It’s a different situation entirely when determining whether it’s morally wrong to host a site with freely downloadable ROMs. The site could be used by people who did not purchase those games, causing lost revenue to their creators.
Both of those situations have grey areas and I can see why someone would consider them immoral. I have opinions on them, of course, but there’s a lot more nuance there; I can easily see why someone would feel differently.
With this specific situation I don’t understand - and am trying to understand - how someone could come to different conclusions for the morality of the two actions. Are they inferring that you support the site hosting the content when you download it? (If you use an adblocker and don’t financially support them, would it then be fine?) Are they assuming torrenting, where you would have to either leech (which they would consider immoral) or seed, and thus distribute, as well? Or is there some other factor that I’m not thinking of?
Depends, really. Some just feel squicky about breaking copyright law.
NGL I kinda feel a bit obligated to be extra careful out of deference to a relative’s relationship to a lawyer, haha.
But in general, I try to conduct myself in the model of the ideal world I want to live in, if I can.
In the best world, there’s no piracy because everyone gets their fair dues, and users get fair access to their purchased goods. But I also ain’t judging others who do pirate or do other stuff with their own things, because we definitely don’t live in that world, and corporations do not deserve to have a monopoly on access to media like that.
And, really, its just not right. As a fan of classic, old games, I can’t respect not technically pirating entirely, when it means the loss of amazing games. Like the amazing 3DS Virtual Boy emulation projects! Or just soooo many classic, otherwise lost adventure games.
I’m probably not going to wind up playing those, but the world is worse if not for people technically pirating.
I have a GameCube, Wii, Wii u, 3DS and a switch with multiple games on all. I’ve also used emulators to play modded Zelda games with increased performance.
Nintendo made shit ports on switch and took a premium. They can get royally fucked.
They are not losing revenue from piracy. Stupid greedy orcs.
make it 1.000.001 cause my god, I am never buying a switch game ever
If I was never planning on buying your game, does that mean you lost money?
Don’t be fooled. The real issue here is that Nintendo is trying to use this case as a wedge to eventually outlaw or effectively ban all emulation software because they think it somehow massively affects their bottom line, or they want to have a scapegoat for weak profits.
I’ve never once in my life had a Gamecube, for example. I never will. So if I wanted to pirate Gamecube games and play them on my computer, it is literally victimless, and has zero negative affect on Nintendo’s profits. In fact, I might love the games and decide to buy official merch. Same with the Swtich. I haven’t pirated either, but you get the idea.
Even if you can somehow prove how many people pirated a game over the years, that tells you absolutely nothing about lost potential profits, because people that pirate probably never had the money to buy your hardware and games to begin with.
This is all just corporate propaganda.
And I imagine a fair number of those who pirated also bought the game legally, either to have a digital backup or to run on a PC emulator.
So your main groups pirating a given game are:
- people who never would’ve been customers
- actual customers who own a copy and want it on PC as well
- pirated first, and ended up buying the same later
- actual lost sales
I imagine #4 is such a small percent of the total number of downloads that they probably help more than they hurt (e.g. word of mouth advertising).
I mean, I totally did pirate this game. And I’d do it again, too.
I bought it digitally on release day so my slightly-above-casual-gamer GF could play on the switch and then a few days later I pirated a copy to play on my steam deck and pc interchangeably. While I would have no major qualms about buying additional copies, Nintendo’s insistence on maintaining their native control scheme in a western market will guarantee that many core gamers like myself, who are familiarized with Microsoft and Sony control schemes, will shy away from their products.
I can only have my immersion and fun interrupted by canceling out of a menu or action so many times before I’m just not that interested anymore despite having given it an honest try more than once.
Whine all they want about piracy but I doubt they aren’t losing a significant number of legitimate sales from it. Most people who buy Nintendo consoles and games are loyal to that ecosystem from my own experiences and wouldn’t bother with learning how to access pirated materials.
So yeah I also pirated it and would pirate another game from them too if I felt like giving it a shot but even if pirating wasn’t an option, I would never buy a Nintendo product for myself.
