I do think theyre making perfect be the enemy of, well not exactly good, but in this case the better option, but Im not so sure theyre foreign ops. If you were running a campaign like that, wouldnt you want to concentrate your messaging on the places where the greatest number of people would be to see it, or at least a lot of people? Lemmy is certainly not immune to influence campaigns, Id bet it might even be more vulnerable than most given the lack of central control that might try to inhibit one, but its also currently incredibly small and obscure as far as social networks go. Would it really be considered worth the resources, to such a campaign, in its current state?
There was a point in 2016 when the bernouts started spouting on about how they were now voting for Trump. It’s the exact same situation. They will disingenuously demand something that is not feasible then they will show their true colors while acting like they didn’t intend on voting Trump from the get go.
Imagine voting for neolibs and having the gall to call progressives privileged. Progressives are younger and lower income but sure we’re the privileged ones. You don’t give a shit about anything except character assassinating anyone you see as an enemy. There’s never any honest attempt at engagement from you people.
Oh no, how dare I publicly criticize a political candidate in a democracy. It’s fucking crazy that you think you’re actually one of the good guys. This is exactly the kind of shit fascists say to shut down opposition.
What we’re telling y’all is that voting one more time for a neoliberal isn’t going to make a meaningful change in stopping the inevitable descent into fascism that neoliberal policies have facilitated for the last 40 or 50 years.
It’s like the saying goes: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
You’re saying in one breath that Trump and Biden are the same and in the next that voting for either one of them equally insane. Both of those things are plainly false.
Won’t make a difference means zero difference but Trump is literally the accelerationist choice.
Surely what the Democrats are doing is effective, and Christo fascism is now less of a threat than it was in 2016 and 2020. Right? They should clearly keep doing the same thing, it’s working super well!
I’m gonna be honest with you because you made me laugh.
I’m not clicking that poll story, but I did find it illuminating that you took my apparent question as openness to propaganda after you did that unhinged sarcastic shit. I don’t give a fuck about Trump vs Biden polls. But I do appreciate the demonstration.
The thing is: the US is not a well-functioning democracy. It currently tries to be to some extent, but it’s system especially at the national level is set up in a way that heavily biases power towards wealthy interests and rural states, both of which tend to favor conservative politics, and which mathematically garuntees only two parties can be viable at a time, with third parties merely providing a negative effect on whatever major party is closer to them. In a well designed democratic system, there’d be a much greater variety of political groups to support such that one that actually reasonably approximates a given person’s views may exist, and voting for those groups would have practical consequence. But, we don’t have that. Voting isn’t completely inconsequential, hence one should still do it, but in our current state it’s not enough to fix things by itself. But again, since it still does something even if not enough, it makes sense to try to get as much utility as possible out of it. At the moment, the only candidates that have any chance whatsoever of winning are a neoliberal and a fascist. Now, you can argue that the popularity of the fascist is a result of the failures of neoliberal policies and so voting for the candidate supporting those policies won’t stop the popularity of the fascist ones, and that could be true- but the fascist is just going to bring about the fascist policies even faster. “The candidate that can fix things” isn’t on the ballot of either major party right now, and the system mathematically garuntees that third parties are counterproductive at this level, so voting for meaningful change isn’t an option here.
I’m not saying one should give up pushing for meaningful change. I’m saying that at the moment, getting that change is going to require more than just voting, at least at the national level and especially in the presidential election. I do not plan on voting for Biden in the coming general election because I am under some illusion that he’s going to fix things. I plan on voting for him to stall for time. It isn’t exiting, it’s downright depressing, but on balance, it’s still more moral in my view to take that option than the fascistic one, or to do nothing at all.
Exactly… It’s almost like there’s no interest to change any of that from those who benefit and continuing to vote for them or support them will continue to perpetuate this inevitable spiral.
Sometimes the only winning move is not to play. - Joshua (John Wood), War Games, 1983
They’re all over the fucking place here. It’s wild. They’re almost for certain foreign cointelpro.
I do think theyre making perfect be the enemy of, well not exactly good, but in this case the better option, but Im not so sure theyre foreign ops. If you were running a campaign like that, wouldnt you want to concentrate your messaging on the places where the greatest number of people would be to see it, or at least a lot of people? Lemmy is certainly not immune to influence campaigns, Id bet it might even be more vulnerable than most given the lack of central control that might try to inhibit one, but its also currently incredibly small and obscure as far as social networks go. Would it really be considered worth the resources, to such a campaign, in its current state?
Agreed. They’re dangerous and privileged – it really doesn’t need to be more complicated than that.
Haha, yeah nothing to see here.
There was a point in 2016 when the bernouts started spouting on about how they were now voting for Trump. It’s the exact same situation. They will disingenuously demand something that is not feasible then they will show their true colors while acting like they didn’t intend on voting Trump from the get go.
For the love of god don’t fall for it again.
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Imagine voting for neolibs and having the gall to call progressives privileged. Progressives are younger and lower income but sure we’re the privileged ones. You don’t give a shit about anything except character assassinating anyone you see as an enemy. There’s never any honest attempt at engagement from you people.
Imagine advocating for actions that directly increase the risk of a Trump presidency.
Grow up.
Oh no, how dare I publicly criticize a political candidate in a democracy. It’s fucking crazy that you think you’re actually one of the good guys. This is exactly the kind of shit fascists say to shut down opposition.
Go take a nap.
What more privileged position is there than the one which favors purity over pragmatism?
I think it’s more about the fact that this is the only place that doesn’t just ban them.
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Where do I collect my cheque?
What we’re telling y’all is that voting one more time for a neoliberal isn’t going to make a meaningful change in stopping the inevitable descent into fascism that neoliberal policies have facilitated for the last 40 or 50 years.
It’s like the saying goes: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
You’re saying in one breath that Trump and Biden are the same and in the next that voting for either one of them equally insane. Both of those things are plainly false.
Won’t make a difference means zero difference but Trump is literally the accelerationist choice.
You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said they are the same. I said one is the product of the other.
People have been telling you this would happen for forty or fifty years.
My reading comprehension is just fine. You need an argument and it’s not the one that you’re getting.
Surely what the Democrats are doing is effective, and Christo fascism is now less of a threat than it was in 2016 and 2020. Right? They should clearly keep doing the same thing, it’s working super well!
Actually? 😂
Yes. Actually. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-trump-tied-outset-us-election-year-reutersipsos-poll-2024-01-10/
I’m gonna be honest with you because you made me laugh.
I’m not clicking that poll story, but I did find it illuminating that you took my apparent question as openness to propaganda after you did that unhinged sarcastic shit. I don’t give a fuck about Trump vs Biden polls. But I do appreciate the demonstration.
The thing is: the US is not a well-functioning democracy. It currently tries to be to some extent, but it’s system especially at the national level is set up in a way that heavily biases power towards wealthy interests and rural states, both of which tend to favor conservative politics, and which mathematically garuntees only two parties can be viable at a time, with third parties merely providing a negative effect on whatever major party is closer to them. In a well designed democratic system, there’d be a much greater variety of political groups to support such that one that actually reasonably approximates a given person’s views may exist, and voting for those groups would have practical consequence. But, we don’t have that. Voting isn’t completely inconsequential, hence one should still do it, but in our current state it’s not enough to fix things by itself. But again, since it still does something even if not enough, it makes sense to try to get as much utility as possible out of it. At the moment, the only candidates that have any chance whatsoever of winning are a neoliberal and a fascist. Now, you can argue that the popularity of the fascist is a result of the failures of neoliberal policies and so voting for the candidate supporting those policies won’t stop the popularity of the fascist ones, and that could be true- but the fascist is just going to bring about the fascist policies even faster. “The candidate that can fix things” isn’t on the ballot of either major party right now, and the system mathematically garuntees that third parties are counterproductive at this level, so voting for meaningful change isn’t an option here.
I’m not saying one should give up pushing for meaningful change. I’m saying that at the moment, getting that change is going to require more than just voting, at least at the national level and especially in the presidential election. I do not plan on voting for Biden in the coming general election because I am under some illusion that he’s going to fix things. I plan on voting for him to stall for time. It isn’t exiting, it’s downright depressing, but on balance, it’s still more moral in my view to take that option than the fascistic one, or to do nothing at all.
Exactly… It’s almost like there’s no interest to change any of that from those who benefit and continuing to vote for them or support them will continue to perpetuate this inevitable spiral.
Perhaps, but this is not one of those times.
Half the country DGAF about Gaza, but wants to remove your bodily autonomy, persecute minorities, and undermine all future elections.
They’re going to vote.
66% of americans make the “winning move” every election cycle.
Are you actually claiming that not voting will change things for the better?
Cheque? lol don’t give yourself away too hard comrade.
I know this is doing to be fucking mind-blowing to you, bust some of us are dual nationals.
Okay, so who should we vote for?