A marginalized group does not receive human rights, they are stripped of them. The removal of your birthrights should be violently opposed as soon as possible.

  • Vegan btw (LOUD)@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
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    1 year ago

    but once the struggle to survive is gone. There is no longer any money and people have plenty of food. Everyone has their materials need met plus luxuries. Why would people fight?

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Even after we have abolished private property and wage labor, nature will keep creating new threats to our rights that we have to struggle against. Perhaps in some far future under FALGSC we can surpass nature and the eternal struggle for our rights will finally be won, but how could you call the rights we artificially constructed for ourselves “natural”? We only gained those rights by defeating nature!

      • Vegan btw (LOUD)@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
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        1 year ago

        Ok but there must have been a time where people lived in peace. Then the farmers made the concept of money in the world. The word natural is extremely misleading.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          People lived in peace with other people much of the time, but we never lived in peace with nature itself. Drought, flood, fire, predators, disease, infection, and many many other natural threats to our human rights have always existed. Furthermore, natural scarcity meant that even other people could become a threat - people from a different gens/tribe could decide that it’s better if the other gens/tribe dies than if everyone eats a little less to make the food last longer. Nature was humanity’s first enemy, before we divided up into class society and started to war with each other.

          I will say “natural” is misleading, because humans are natural too. That’s why I said in order for “natural” to mean anything at all then it must be distinct from human choices. If we include humans into nature, then natural rights don’t mean anything because everything is natural including human oppression.

          • Vegan btw (LOUD)@lemmy.sdf.orgOP
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            1 year ago

            oppression people is an action(a thought such as making the other village the enemy put into action) while not oppressing people is nothing(natural).

            • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
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              1 year ago

              Animal intelligence and its products and human intelligence and its products are fundamentally the same. If beaver dam is natural then Three Gorges Dam is also natural. Difference is only in degree of sophistication.

              • JucheBot1988@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                Animal intelligence and its products and human intelligence and its products are fundamentally the same.

                This may be true from the “outside” – i.e., from the perspective of some hypothetical non-human observer – but what it doesn’t consider, I think, is the subject-object distinction so important to historical progress. Humanity experiences itself most purely as subject (intelligible) and the non-human worldmost purely as object (alien and unintelligible). Since humanity begins in bondage to external nature, the original traumatic experience is the collective discovery that subject is in fact, and from a certain view that may be considered more “correct,” also object, and this with regard to the brute, unintelligible forces of external nature. Historical progress is humanity asserting and maximizing its subjectivity by control over the external world. Thus, dialectically, a real distinction between humanity and nature develops. Nature is that which cannot be known (by humanity) as subject, and over which humanity is struggling to assert control; humanity is that which can be known as subject, which itself struggles, and which is experienced as struggling. The precise boundary between the natural and the human is discovered and created within the conflict itself.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              So a bear choosing to eat me isn’t natural?

              If we say “okay, bears are natural so anything they choose to do is natural” then you have a problem because humans are natural too.

              That’s why I made the distinction between humans and nature. Everything humans do is unnatural, including when we choose to do nothing at all.