• spiderwort@lemm.ee
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    9 months ago

    We’re talking about the realness of reality here.

    This gender stuff seems rather petty, comparatively.

    • kromem@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      No, the two went together for a very long time.

      Because if the nature of your reality is that physical embodiment is an illusion and that all which really matters is what’s inside you, then gender conformity isn’t an important issue at all.

      For example, this was a saying from an early ‘heretical’ tradition of Christianity which claimed that we are in a non-physical copy of an original physical world as created by an intelligence the original humanity brought forth (quite simulation hypothesis-y):

      Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, “These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom.”

      They said to him, “Then shall we enter the kingdom as babies?”

      Jesus said to them, “When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter.”

      The idea here was that this realm is the copy of an original that we don’t enter in some transition but are literally born into at birth (a rather radically different notion of “born again”). But this would necessarily mean that we are only in the image of the past, but are not foundationally male or female at all, as it’s a temporary embodiment recreating the past.

      The tradition’s key point was to understand the nature of reality and in so understanding to realize that there will be an afterlife, but very close behind that point was pushing the importance of self-knowledge and self-truth:

      But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty.

      So while yes, the notion of reality being simulated is a very big idea objectively, the subjective implications of that being the case are certainly tied to personal identity and in shedding the constraints of physical embodiment on how we define that identity.

    • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Not really. Understanding gender stuff helped me figure out the nature of reality in several ways.

      First, it made me realize that we don’t have the freedom to choose what we want. We don’t choose to desire food or water. We don’t choose who we love or what gender feels right. I didn’t choose to be trans, and I can’t choose to be cis. Like not drinking water, I could avoid transitioning, but I’d die. If not doing something results in death, than there is no real choice on whether or not we can do it.

      Second, I realized that we can never have certainty about anything, even what we want or who we are. I thought I was cis for a long time, and I didn’t have total certainty that I was trans until I came out and felt better as a result. I didn’t know I was a girl or wanted to be a girl, only that I wanted to be trans so I could be a girl.

      Third, it helped me understand the true nature of evolution. It is the source of our very understanding of good and bad, right and wrong, but it is a cruel system of pain and suffering fuelled by blood sacrifice. Evolution, despite being the original good, is not good for individuals. Understanding “the good” tells us little about how to be good, ethical people.

      I don’t give a damn what our creator wants for us, it sucks. I feel a similar way about the Christian conception of God: I don’t think anybody should look to a higher authority for their morals. There is no intrinsic good, only good from specific perspectives.

      If all that doesn’t touch on similar themes as the Matrix and its sequels, I don’t know what does.

      • spiderwort@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        I think that you are rendering your personal drama in inflated terms. A tempest in your own personal philosophical teapot. It is large and important because it’s up in your face. An ant on your nose that you mistake for Godzilla. A trick of perspective.

        • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          I mean, people’s experiences of romance or their struggles with faith are types of “personal drama” that have informed philosophy and literature for millenia. There’s no “trick” in how meaningful gender is in people’s lives. Tell any feminist throughout history that their gender hasn’t played a large or important role in their life. Is they patriarchal oppression just a tempest in women’s philosophical teapot? Are the thousands of dollars in medical expenses I have to pay to not hate my body to the point of suicidal depression an ant I am mistaking for Godzilla?

          I’m sorry my biggest problems don’t seem important to you. I’ll talk about philosophy in regards to trolly switches or impossible hotels or ship maintenance or boulders we have to push up mountains instead. You know, things that matter in our lives 😶

          • spiderwort@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            Or maybe whether you paint your fingernails or not is an issue because you make it an issue. You. Not the cosmos, the creator or society. You.

            Which, yes, doesn’t make it any less of an issue. But, again. Perspective.

            Because, and I think I can say this objectively: fingernail polish is very very small.

            • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Based on numerous experiments and careful consideration, I confidently rejected the null hypothesis of me “making” gender an issue. I am measurably more miserable when I’m perceived as male than when I am perceived as female.

              On every self report measure of anxiety, depression, stress, suicidal ideation, my scores have improved and remain consistently stable when I feel less dysphoria after socially transitioning. I am far more productive and outgoing, with my self-harm behaviors completely stopped by gender affirmation. Happy and energetic vs depressed and suicidal.

              This isn’t something that happens because I want it, as I didn’t really want to go through the effort of transitioning after I realized I wanted to be a woman. Do you hear me? I DIDN’T WANT TO TRANSITION, and yet, I didn’t have a choice. I would not be able to work, I would not be free of suicidal thoughts, I couldn’t fucking live unless I transitioned.

              Saying I “made” my gender an issue is like saying I “made” my hip slowly dislocating an issue. I didn’t choose to have my leg slip away from hip over a period of months. It wasn’t a minor issue either. I basically wouldn’t have been able to walk if it went untreated. Surgically implanting a screw to hold my leg in place wasn’t a choice, it was a necessity. I couldn’t ignore that.

              You seem to think we control our brains, and not the other way around. We aren’t in control. It’s an illusion. Free will is dead as a doornail, even without considering determinism or causality.

              Also, I have no idea why you think “issues” can ever be objective. I assume you’re talking about how much they “matter” which is a measure of importance or value. However, there is no “objective” measure of importance. That’s literally antithetical to the very concept. It’s inherently relative. So no, you can’t say nail polish is objectively “small” in value, because value can never be objective.

              You’re far deeper in the Matrix than you think you are.

                • TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  That’s the thing. No one’s really in control of themselves. Some people have more or less control over different aspects, but we’re limited by default, not free by default. I kind of knew this was the case scientifically, but being trans forced me to understand this truth at a deeper level.

                  I wouldn’t say I’m the source of my being trans anymore than I’m the source of my heartbeat orr DNA. I am the “source of everything about me,” but that concept of source doesn’t tell me much. I’m no more the source of this issue than we’re the source of all possible issues.