The US has had all the time in the world to develop electric vehicles but decided to self-sabotage multiple times in the name of profits, from GM trashing their EV1s in the 90s to the current trend of the auto companies lobbying for tax credits and then jacking up EV prices to eat up that whole credit and then some. Outsourcing manufacturing wasn’t an issue when US companies could pocket huge profits, but it’s suddenly a problem when it could mean customers get lower prices? Fuck that, bring on the cheap vehicles. Restricting Chinese EVs will do nothing but keep US companies complacent with jacked up prices.
We can’t compete with China on price, but do we need to? I don’t think it matters if our cars are more expensive than Chinese cars, what matters is: can Americans afford to buy American cars? If Americans can’t afford to buy American made products, our industrial renaissance will fail.
Labor is usually one of the biggest costs of making things. Our laborers need to make more than Chinese laborers because our cost of living is higher. We went from a country that made stuff to a country that generated a lot of its growth from inflating the value of assets and charging rents. As a result, the cost of living, especially housing, has gone up considerably, relative to wages. If we bring down the cost of living, housing especially, it will prevent labor costs from ballooning out of control. But, while this will help with affordability, it won’t be enough on its own. We’ll have to find other ways to cut costs, as well.
There is a lot of waste and bloat in our economy, we need to streamline. We need to eliminate inefficiencies wherever possible. We need to eliminate needless middlemen who just jack up prices, and we need to allow consumers to buy directly from manufacturers. We also need to reign in executive pay, and we need to get rid of shareholders who do nothing but sit back and collect passive income. We need to boost productive work and reduce, or eliminate, all of the non productive, rent seeking behavior.
It is becoming a problem as China expands its manufacturing capacity in that it is rapidly hitting a point where China becomes mostly self-sufficient in all manufactured goods and only relies on the rest of the world for natural resources. For some economies, this affectively means they don’t have anything of value to trade with China.
Last time this was a major problem, the British went into the opium trade.
So maybe giving a ton of subsidies with little strings attached to what essentially is only Tesla was not a good move. Maybe if those subsidies were targeted just a bit better to steer them towards more societally beneficial goals might have made that instead of giving a ton of money to Musk to buy and fuck up some random social media website, they could have given that same money to battery manufacturers.
This wound is more self-inflicted if anything, it’s just that the US actually believed its own kool-aid that they are the best at innovation because of “capitalism”, and other places are just never going to be able to compete. Tariffs won’t help either. The US will either catch up or be left behind. It will hurt either way, but isolating will only let the wound fester.
BTW, as a European, this is how it feels like to be on the receiving end of Big Tech. Any attempt of trying to curb the influence of what essentially is a foreign power pouring limitless resources into a key industry is going to be taken as anti-competitive protectionist idiocy, and you will just be chastised that “well, you are just envious of China, because they don’t have the low-growth policies that stifle your innovation and growth!”
Maybe free trade should include Union protections and shouldn’t be extended to places where workers aren’t allowed to orginize and strike?
When the unions build good cars I’ll keep that in mind. I’m not looking for a cookiecutter SUV or an overpriced oversized truck… I want an EV that is in the $15-$25k price range that doesn’t suck.
I’m surprised the article didn’t go into the other factor in this dilemma: the National security angle. As we can from the past few years that car companies are becoming tech companies and tech companies become advertising companies. Mozilla released a report not too long ago that new cars these days are constantly collecting data. It would be like TikTok all over again. Allowing a hostile foreign country free rein to collect data on Americans and to use that information against us. But unlike TikTok, you just can’t ban a physical object like you can software.
But unlike TikTok, you just can’t ban a physical object
Sure you can. You embargo the cars. Countries do these things all the time.
The better answer is to require them to run open source software.
I mean you can. It is just a lot less convenient.
Take the subway (or bus, or bicycle, or walk, or scooter, or motorcycle, or longboard, etc). Fuck cars.
Edit: added more options for people missing my point.
It’s not that simple. Many places on the planet do not have a high enough population density to make subways viable.
I love trains. I take trains when possible. But your take is overly simplistic.
Yet in the early 1900s there was enough population for an extensive network of trolleys… With 2 billion people on the entire planet. Now were headed back to trolleys with extra steps
Obviously people who absolutely need cars have no choice, but for most of the population, however, take the subway.
I think you underestimate how shitty public transit is outside of like maybe six or seven major metros across all of North America.
You compare needing cars to using the subways as if I have a choice. Most of us literally don’t.
Well, the US is the US. You don’t have socialized anything.
Please note I am from Lemmy.ca and I can tell you the exact same thing about Canada.
Don’t be elitist if you’re going to be ignorant.
I assumed Canadians are allowed to move to and live in the US.
Shitting on all countries but your own is elitist.
Shitting on one country (especially when it is justified) is not.
My city has over 2.2M people, spans 530sq-mi (1,372 km2 for metric folk)…… and doesn’t have a subway. You want me to do what now?
He wants you to e-bike obviously.
I was going to say bicycle, but stick a Japanese electric motor on one of them and you’ve got a pretty nice piece of transportation. I take my kid to kindergarten, go grocery shopping, etc on my bicycle even during rain, and it is really pleasant. Unless it takes over 40 minutes by bicycle, or the person has some kind of physical disability, I would recommended bicycles for sure. I don’t even have a driver’s license.
I mean america is rotten to the core. If you want a real solution its not gonna be cheap or easy, thats just what we get for years focused on funneling money to the shareholders instead of actual innovation.
Turns out theres countries out there that are happy to cut out this inefficiency, and so given a long enough timeframe almost have to pull ahead
Sprout wings you filthy casual
Most people live in the city and don’t need cars. You’re an exception. Though an electric car isn’t going to help much for you either since sparsely populated areas lack charging stations anyway.
Phoenix, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin all have inadequate public transportation. And together they account for 5 of the 10 biggest cities in the US by population.
And one of those is the city I live in. Their combined MSAs account for almost 25 million people that can’t just “take the subway”
What about bicycles, scooters, the bus? Surely you have at least one of those?
If you don’t have a subway where you live, then that’s unfortunate, and I agree there is nothing you can do there.
I was trying to point out that most people with access to the subway still drive a car for some reason, and I meant that these people should use the public transportation that they have.
Drive a car, there in 15 minutes.
Take a bus, there in 2 hours. Takes 40 minutes to walk to the fitst bus stop.
Bus does not run after 9pm.
If the car takes 15 minutes, the bicycle will take 30
The person you are replying to said they live in a city of 2.2 million people, and your response is “most people live in the city?” If 2.2 million people isn’t a city, then I don’t know what is. Also, 2.2 million people in 530 sqmi is 4150 people per square mile. And you consider that sparsely populated?
It is a city if it is dense.
I consider that shitty american urban design, which after decades is finally coming to reap what they sow; It just sucks to be the collateral in it all.
But I mean really you can’t expect that to move a 200lbs person you’d NEED 20x that weight in machine, thats a whole ass 95% error were getting sold
Absolutely nobody here is arguing that America has good urban design. We are arguing with the person who said we don’t need cars because we can all take the subway. Most Americans, even huge car enthusiasts, would love to have more public train systems if only to lower traffic so they can drive faster. Half of the country is not willing to pay for it, though.
I said most, not all, assuming at least major cities had public transportation, but I did indeed not know how bad it truly was. I grew up using a bicycle to go anywhere, then a bus, then a train, never a car.
you’re an exception
LOL!
an electric car isn’t going to help much for you either since sparsely populated areas lack charging stations
Even sparsely populated areas usually have electricity. If your house is connected to the grid, you can charge your car at home and wake up every morning with a “full tank”. DC fast charging stations are really only needed for long road trips.
I’m not NoCars than anything but I gotta agree thats definitely the dumbest reason people hate on EVs, like imagine being so used to the idea of gas stations you can’t even imagine a world without
How do you charge at home? Do you get a long extension coord and keep your door open at night? Aren’t you making the assumption that every house has an outdoor socket or even a parking spot? I sure have neither. If you live in an apartment, does your landlord offer charging at the parking?
But what if I’d rather drive my ev?
Done.
Youre children’s blood is now full of microplastics
If you ride a bike, then you are also contributing to this problem.
I mean me ripping ass is contributing to co2 emissions but it doesnt make coal plants ok cause I fart.
Bikes have an extremely reduced tire surface area compared to cars as well as much lower velocities; those variables alone causing exponentially less microplastics released.
And walking causes even less release of microplastics. So if you choose to bike instead of walk, you are responsible for unnecessary microplastics release.
Isnt this like the exact opposite of what I was saying?
Thought I made it pretty clear but I’ll make it even clearer: a human farting does not excuse emissions from coal plants, although they both contribute to greenhouse gasses
It’s not the opposite. As you said, they both contribute to the problem. But nobody actively encourages farting.
Maybe 5% as much of a contribution, if I were to make an estimate.
Likewise, a typical car makes a much smaller contribution than a semi.
Are you arguing that because cars are a little better than semis, that’s good enough?
Cars are a lot better than semis. If they aren’t good enough then I don’t see why one would be satisfied with bikes.
