Before you read. I made this comment while triggered and rushing. I do not believe that this comment holds the tone that I wanted to coney and I believe that it is poorly written. I leave it up, as I believe it would be a bit of a cop out to delete my comment, I also believe that some of the discourse below is productive and representative of my beliefs. I made a better version of my thoughts here: https://pawb.social/comment/926750.
ah yes. The old tradition of calling you political opponents nazis or communists, or liberals. Wasn’t this the worst part of nazism (ideologically speaking)? Instead of looking at the context, they defaulted to calling all jews spies. Or instead of looking at the struggles that come with integrating different societies and the benefits that come along with that, they just assumed that different races are fundementally incapable of cooperating? Or they saw everyone that didn’t agree with them as fundimentally evil, instead of understanding that there is at least a hint of truth in most phylosphies/political beliefs that they can learn from even if the belief is one that could be considered evil. A great example is abortion: on one hand, you’re litterally erasing the heart beat of another living being before their first breaths. On the other hand, I remember hearing of a 14 year old girl in my area who got pregnant, and you know that baby is done for… especially with the mismnaged mess that is american welfare. I absolutely disagree with many republican beliefs and idioligies, I hate the culture war BS that they petal. I hate watching them wine about cancel culture, and then they cancel a beer company because they gave a single free beer can to a trans woman. I get it, but messages like this only make them think you’re crazy because the idiologies of modern republicans do differ from nazism, maybe for some republicans more than others. But this isn’t helping; because if there is one thing nazism and white supremism feeds off the most… Its the “evil others”.
tldr; there are some differences between nazis and modern republicans (many of these characteristics are better in republicans), and trying to paint them otherwise is just asking for trouble. Acuse others only of what they are guilty.
I made on edit for clarity.
I made a second edit because the quote “evil “others”” could technically be construed that I think that the others are in fact evil. I used that language to note how Nazis and white supremism will often assume that others are evil for the mere fact that they are the “others” and I wanted to better get my idea across that this is bad.
I made a third edit: I add the (ideologically speaking) line after Wasn’t this the worst part of nazism?. I did this because others were thinking that I thought that was the most awful thing about nazism. The most awful part about nazism was the murdering and mistreatment of innocents. I meant to bring it up as this is the biggest flaw in their ideology. Most Nazis will just devolve into incoherent screaming when you bring up their error of generalizing groups of people.
Bro they are literally calling to exterminate liberals, LGBT and trans people. If you really want to wait until that jackboot is crushing your windpipe so you can smugly whisper “both sides” with your final breath, that’s your deal. I will call a spade a spade.
Some of them are. And screw them. however I know many republicans who would froth at the teeth about such people. Calling such people Nazis is counter productive and only inflames the current issues at hand. I think it is better to say: “There are some republicans who are calling to exterminate LGBTQ+ people, and hold values such as Nazism or white Supremacism. These people are incredibly dangerous, are a blight on our nation, and should be fought against as vigorously as we can. Republicans, Democrats, Capitalists, Socialists, we can and should agree on one fact: FUCK THEM, and FUCK anyone willing to threaten someone else on the mere basis that they are different”. Because it is that line of reasoning why I hear my republican parents saying “The woke media is coming after us and unjustly call us nazis.” and why nothing is done to fix the actual problem, just finger pointing and “bold” political speeches.
Edited to remove typo.
Calling such people Nazis is counter productive and only inflames the current issues at hand.
If they talk like a Nazi, act like a Nazi, or sympathize with Nazis, I’m gonna call them a Nazi. There’s no room to be tolerant here, Nazis have zero place in our society. And those that are Nazis are right wing and hide within the Republican party. That doesn’t make them any less of a Nazi, and we should call them out on it.
Before you read. I made an edit to this post. Because I think editing your posts to cover up your mistakes is a wimp way to handle things: I revised the section like this: [“old text” -> “new text”]. START: They do not talk like a Nazi: they rarely include rhetoric such as how they hate other races (unless they are already a Nazi). They do not act like a Nazi: Most republicans (regardless of what twitter says) do not go around burning people, or calling others beneath them. They do not sympathize with Nazis: The root of all Nazist beliefs is that races are incapable of cooperation. Most republicans believe in a [“strong constitution, and family values.” -> “strong constitution, family values and freedom. They however do not include the belief that races must be against each other”] The reason why many Nazis vote republican is because republicans are as close as Nazis are going to get. However they are two very different ideologies with very different thought processes. Call a spade a spade, a Nazi a Nazi, and a Republican a republican. If you hate their ideas, than let your voice be heard. I will be the first to wine about republican policies. However, whatever you do. Do not stoop so far as to fall back to labeling and name calling like middle-schoolers. Who don’t know enough to engage in actual thought. And to assume that all republicans are nazis, is a bad faith argument and will leave you ignored.
Edit: Removed a swear word before “middle-schoolers” as I said it out of frustration and after cooling down, I believe it detracts from the current conversation.
Where did I say that all Republicans are Nazis? Look closely, I said no such thing. I am saying that Nazis hide in the Republican ranks. There are openly white supremacist factions within the Republican Party (i.e. “Christian Identitarians”) that hide behind a veneer of civility. These groups have far greater influence in the Republican Party than ideological extremists on the left have with the Democratic Party.
We both agree on the fact that there are Nazis within the republican party, and I believe we both agree on the dangers associated with that. The mere goal of my argument was such: “Not all republicans are Nazis, therefore we should be careful with how we address them. We should avoid dismissing them on the mere basis that some may be bad actors and instead engage in a different line of reasoning.”
The portion you quoted, “Calling such people Nazis is counter productive and only inflames the current issues at hand.”, had some very important context. “Such people” in this case, was referring only to the portion of republicans who were not bad actors and were voting in good faith.
I’m making a second comment because I believe I have a better way of putting this. We both accept that there is a certain % of republicans that are Nazis. I am merely making the argument that there is a % of republicans who are not. We should not condemn the % of not Nazis just because a certain % of the republican party is made up of Nazis. If you disagree on this basis or I am mis-understanding you, please respond as I would like to know more.
Why then is extremist, explicitly Nazi rhetoric so pervasive within the Republican ranks? A good example of this is the United The Right rally in Charlottesville. The Nazis present were not condemned by the leader of the Republican party at that time when it would be the easiest thing for him to do. This tacit implicit support emboldens them for future action. Any sensible President would have denounced Nazis and their actions, especially as a woman was killed as a result of their actions.
I believe the phrase “Why then is extremist, explicitly Nazi rhetoric so pervasive within the Republican ranks?” is a far more complex phrase than you leave it to be. For one, we lack any objective way to gauge the overall opinions. All methods of gauging this (to my current knowledge) at all, have inherent issues.
The methods I know of are: Personal Experience, Media Coverage, Questionnaire studies, and the opinions of the leaders. Personal experience has to many unrelated variables at play. Were do you live? Who do you talk to? What are the people you talk with willing to talk to you about?
Media coverage can be extremely biased as it is often times more profitable to focus on the number of eyes that you get, versus the accuracy of your information. Media coverage is also not focused on representing society. It makes more sense to report on a single important incident, than it is to report 100 quiet days were nothing happened.
Questionnaires would normally be a good method and it normally would be. However, there are a lot of variables at play. How was the data gathered, is it peer reviewed, what measures were taken to prevent the inherent biases (either from the researchers, or by the nature of the current method studying), what is the sample size? This would be the best way to categorize the party as a whole, should the correct measures be taken. I have a had a lot of trouble finding solid studies that strayed away from this, as the current landscape of political questionnaires and studies are full of studies containing these flaws. Note: If you have found a good study that takes the necessary precautions, I would be grateful if you shared it. I should also note, that I’m not exactly a professional fact checker and I do not know all the best ways to find these studies.
The opinions of the leaders of a given party can also be a great way to gauge. However this necessitates that all members of the party agree with their current leader. Not all republicans want to vote for trump, or may not be paying enough attention to be knowledgeable about him (As much as we argue and it does in fact matter who you vote for. America seems to have grown a sub culture of people who are mostly dis-interested in politics. My belief is that it is most likely either people who do not care about politics, or people that trust their overall government and fellow man enough to make the decisions for him in such matters).
Another thing is that there are many “sub-parties”, if you will, under republicans. I have seen traditionalist republicans argue with libertarian republicans. I have seen republicans who refuse to budge an inch on guns, debate republicans who believe gun control is necessary. I have seen republicans who hate the war on drugs, debate republicans who think alcohol should be banned. I believe the reason that we see a more unified message among-st the republican party is due to the general state of politics in america.
I believe the biggest reason for this unification in message; is because the transition of politicians to more of a focus on careers, rather than directly fighting for what you believe in. A great example is how most republican candidates have tried to get endorsements from trump, because they new he was popular and it would help there image. Lobbying is a huge industry at the moment, encouraging both republicans and democrats to vote differently.
I believe the second biggest reason is need for traction to get started. To win an election you need votes, to get votes you need money, to get money you need a source to get money from. If you’re rich, great! You’ll be among the few who get a chance to risk throwing money away for the hope of maybe making this country better. If you’re not a wealthy person (who as a population, appear to be less concerned with politics and more concerned with business.), than you can try to start small and try to talk to everyone to get them to spread your name. This can be a very slow process and also carries with it the risk of failure, as you may be a liability to future employers and you might be seen as evil by some. The final option is to pander. Try to get other political candidates to endorse you, and build connections. The downside is that you have to not only worry about what is best for the country/state/city, you now have to worry about how it will look to everyone else if you openly fight against the very people who built your political career.
Why do people who disagree with their party just vote for another party like the green party. The most common message that I hear is this: Voting for someone does nothing if they will never be elected. Most other parties are almost completely ignored. Thus my best option is to vote for the politicians closest to my beliefs, from the bigger republican party.
The current state of republican politics also makes it difficult to describe them through a study. Because of the sub-factions that exist, who may disagree heavily republican voting as a whole. Such people who would only vote for someone they believe is making the party a better party. This means that even if there is an over 50% population of republicans who are Nazis: there may still be “sub-parties” who act almost in-dependently from the republican party, excluding only the title of republican.
This is why I, and many republicans that I know, will agree with you that there is a dangerous group of Nazis within the republican party. There will be a dis-agreement as to how bad the situation is, but this the threat of Nazis is a commonly known fact. I think the use of this fact as a counterpoint to all republicans beliefs, has made many republicans afraid to say or admit how bad the situation is (out of fear that you will completely ignore any points they have to make. especially if they are one of these sub-parites). I also know republicans who refuse to vote for Donald Trump because of his handling of the Charlottesville incident, among other things.
I merely believe it to be more constructive to encourage republicans to look for the evils in there own party, just as democrats should within their own as well. While also trying to break down the adversarial nature of modern politics, as many people on both sides have a bad habit of shutting down when confronted, and encouraging collaborative political discussion.
P.S.
there are some errors in gammar and spelling I have to hop off now and I plan to fix them tomorrow.
Some of the language I used did not meet the standard that I am asking for from the final paragraph. As much as I hate to admit it, most of my other comments here were made while I was triggered. One of the few things that I hate this much about modern politics, has to be the over generalization and dismal of political beliefs made with arguments that do not actually question the policies or specific politicians. This is not an excuse for the way I went about commenting, and I want to condemn the way I spoke earlier. I only leave those comments up because I believe others have a right to see how the conversation got to this point, and how I have handled myself in the past.
No, and this is disgusting. The worst part was disenfranchising jews, LGBTQI*-People, communists, disabled people, sinti&roma and others, locking them up under terible conditions and killing millions of them. Deliberatly killing millions of people to get rid of them.
It’s the root of why they did that. This one single flaw, is what caused them to commit those acts. There is a difference between proximal and root causes. Say my boat is sinking. The proximal issue is that the boat is sinking (the problem I want to fix), the root cause is that there is a hole in my boat (what is causing my problem). The proximal issue with Nazis is that they murder millions and committed horrible acts. The root cause why they did these things, was because they generalized these groups to the point that genocide seemed reasonable to themselves. Instead of looking at the contexts or considering that there are other morals at play.
The Nazis over-generalising Jews was secondary as a simple means to an end of removing a faction that disagrees with Nazis. The correct way to say it was that, to gain and maintain power, the conservatives scapegoated Jews, socialists, and dissidents, to help generate hatred and genocidal tendencies to ultimately overthrow democracy and remove threats to capitalist power. Jews, socialists, and dissidents in general were framed using any random words that sounded good and then killed off. Conservative values are based on using power in any way to achieve their goal; If you think that their contradictory, scapegoating, culture wars make no sense, its because you aren’t looking at it simply enough. they lie and get what they want each step of the way.
I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you trust the conservative lies about what a communism and socialism is.
Calling the NAZIs conservatives doesn’t quite fit the history of Germany. Conservative is an ideology that depends on time and place. For example conservatives in Russia are pro-communism.
In the case of the NAZIs they were progressive nationalist socialists advocating for a “third way" that was not liberalism or communism, which is why they campaigned hard as anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. Anti-semitistm was of course a major part of this as well and part of the reason Jewish conspiracy theories seem to simultaneously be associated with both marxism and capitalism.
The key overlap between Fascism, Nazism , and conservatism is that they are all exactly the correct definition on recent conservatism which is best described by the following quote from Frank Wilhoit:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Conservative values in the modern sense is taking power, while saying whatever the hell helps you take power. It applies perfectly to Nazis and Fascists historically.
If you zoom in on Nazi actions, you see clearly they have the same style as modern conservatives. I hope you don’t misunderstand, I’m not calling Nazis conservatives, I’m calling conservatives NAZIS; And by that I mean the way they use power. ANYTHING to gain and maintain power, the rest is an illusion.
In the case of the NAZIs they were progressive nationalist socialists advocating for a “third way" that was not liberalism or communism, which is why they campaigned hard as anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. Anti-semitistm was of course a major part of this as well and part of the reason Jewish conspiracy theories seem to simultaneously be associated with both marxism and capitalism.
Nazis acted as standard capitalists. They busted unions, they worked alongside corporations without really controlling them in a bad way for them etc. We have tons of jokes about old Nazi companies like Hugo boss that just mysteriously got overlooked and thrived for some time after WW2. They never lost their identity or profits, they gained a lot. It’s the people that lost, as always. Fascist(as we call it today) actions are really just capitalist democracies, that throw away the illusion of democracy, more specifically, they can no longer maintain the illusion - see conservatism.
As for Russians, I’ve been saying this a lot but… I don’t speak Russian, I don’t speak Mandarin, Haven’t visited them, I haven’t done the levels of research needed for me to have an opinion on this matter. There is also a wall of massive propaganda making it 10x harder to validate information. When people talk about modern Russia or China they are talking out their asses and the conversation devolves into shit-flinging. So I shut it down in my very first response. It’s a start of a bad-faith conversation at least 90% of the time. I’m not saying you would be in the 90%, just that I’m opting out of that part of the convo.
Before you read. I made this comment while triggered and rushing. I do not believe that this comment holds the tone that I wanted to coney and I believe that it is poorly written. I leave it up, as I believe it would be a bit of a cop out to delete my comment, I also believe that some of the discourse below is productive and representative of my beliefs. I made a better version of my thoughts here: https://pawb.social/comment/926750.
ah yes. The old tradition of calling you political opponents nazis or communists, or liberals. Wasn’t this the worst part of nazism (ideologically speaking)? Instead of looking at the context, they defaulted to calling all jews spies. Or instead of looking at the struggles that come with integrating different societies and the benefits that come along with that, they just assumed that different races are fundementally incapable of cooperating? Or they saw everyone that didn’t agree with them as fundimentally evil, instead of understanding that there is at least a hint of truth in most phylosphies/political beliefs that they can learn from even if the belief is one that could be considered evil. A great example is abortion: on one hand, you’re litterally erasing the heart beat of another living being before their first breaths. On the other hand, I remember hearing of a 14 year old girl in my area who got pregnant, and you know that baby is done for… especially with the mismnaged mess that is american welfare. I absolutely disagree with many republican beliefs and idioligies, I hate the culture war BS that they petal. I hate watching them wine about cancel culture, and then they cancel a beer company because they gave a single free beer can to a trans woman. I get it, but messages like this only make them think you’re crazy because the idiologies of modern republicans do differ from nazism, maybe for some republicans more than others. But this isn’t helping; because if there is one thing nazism and white supremism feeds off the most… Its the “evil others”.
tldr; there are some differences between nazis and modern republicans (many of these characteristics are better in republicans), and trying to paint them otherwise is just asking for trouble. Acuse others only of what they are guilty.
I made on edit for clarity. I made a second edit because the quote “evil “others”” could technically be construed that I think that the others are in fact evil. I used that language to note how Nazis and white supremism will often assume that others are evil for the mere fact that they are the “others” and I wanted to better get my idea across that this is bad. I made a third edit: I add the (ideologically speaking) line after Wasn’t this the worst part of nazism?. I did this because others were thinking that I thought that was the most awful thing about nazism. The most awful part about nazism was the murdering and mistreatment of innocents. I meant to bring it up as this is the biggest flaw in their ideology. Most Nazis will just devolve into incoherent screaming when you bring up their error of generalizing groups of people.
Bro they are literally calling to exterminate liberals, LGBT and trans people. If you really want to wait until that jackboot is crushing your windpipe so you can smugly whisper “both sides” with your final breath, that’s your deal. I will call a spade a spade.
Some of them are. And screw them. however I know many republicans who would froth at the teeth about such people. Calling such people Nazis is counter productive and only inflames the current issues at hand. I think it is better to say: “There are some republicans who are calling to exterminate LGBTQ+ people, and hold values such as Nazism or white Supremacism. These people are incredibly dangerous, are a blight on our nation, and should be fought against as vigorously as we can. Republicans, Democrats, Capitalists, Socialists, we can and should agree on one fact: FUCK THEM, and FUCK anyone willing to threaten someone else on the mere basis that they are different”. Because it is that line of reasoning why I hear my republican parents saying “The woke media is coming after us and unjustly call us nazis.” and why nothing is done to fix the actual problem, just finger pointing and “bold” political speeches. Edited to remove typo.
If they talk like a Nazi, act like a Nazi, or sympathize with Nazis, I’m gonna call them a Nazi. There’s no room to be tolerant here, Nazis have zero place in our society. And those that are Nazis are right wing and hide within the Republican party. That doesn’t make them any less of a Nazi, and we should call them out on it.
Before you read. I made an edit to this post. Because I think editing your posts to cover up your mistakes is a wimp way to handle things: I revised the section like this: [“old text” -> “new text”]. START: They do not talk like a Nazi: they rarely include rhetoric such as how they hate other races (unless they are already a Nazi). They do not act like a Nazi: Most republicans (regardless of what twitter says) do not go around burning people, or calling others beneath them. They do not sympathize with Nazis: The root of all Nazist beliefs is that races are incapable of cooperation. Most republicans believe in a [“strong constitution, and family values.” -> “strong constitution, family values and freedom. They however do not include the belief that races must be against each other”] The reason why many Nazis vote republican is because republicans are as close as Nazis are going to get. However they are two very different ideologies with very different thought processes. Call a spade a spade, a Nazi a Nazi, and a Republican a republican. If you hate their ideas, than let your voice be heard. I will be the first to wine about republican policies. However, whatever you do. Do not stoop so far as to fall back to labeling and name calling like middle-schoolers. Who don’t know enough to engage in actual thought. And to assume that all republicans are nazis, is a bad faith argument and will leave you ignored.
Edit: Removed a swear word before “middle-schoolers” as I said it out of frustration and after cooling down, I believe it detracts from the current conversation.
Where did I say that all Republicans are Nazis? Look closely, I said no such thing. I am saying that Nazis hide in the Republican ranks. There are openly white supremacist factions within the Republican Party (i.e. “Christian Identitarians”) that hide behind a veneer of civility. These groups have far greater influence in the Republican Party than ideological extremists on the left have with the Democratic Party.
I apologize about the mis-understanding.
We both agree on the fact that there are Nazis within the republican party, and I believe we both agree on the dangers associated with that. The mere goal of my argument was such: “Not all republicans are Nazis, therefore we should be careful with how we address them. We should avoid dismissing them on the mere basis that some may be bad actors and instead engage in a different line of reasoning.”
The portion you quoted, “Calling such people Nazis is counter productive and only inflames the current issues at hand.”, had some very important context. “Such people” in this case, was referring only to the portion of republicans who were not bad actors and were voting in good faith.
I’m making a second comment because I believe I have a better way of putting this. We both accept that there is a certain % of republicans that are Nazis. I am merely making the argument that there is a % of republicans who are not. We should not condemn the % of not Nazis just because a certain % of the republican party is made up of Nazis. If you disagree on this basis or I am mis-understanding you, please respond as I would like to know more.
Why then is extremist, explicitly Nazi rhetoric so pervasive within the Republican ranks? A good example of this is the United The Right rally in Charlottesville. The Nazis present were not condemned by the leader of the Republican party at that time when it would be the easiest thing for him to do. This tacit implicit support emboldens them for future action. Any sensible President would have denounced Nazis and their actions, especially as a woman was killed as a result of their actions.
I believe the phrase “Why then is extremist, explicitly Nazi rhetoric so pervasive within the Republican ranks?” is a far more complex phrase than you leave it to be. For one, we lack any objective way to gauge the overall opinions. All methods of gauging this (to my current knowledge) at all, have inherent issues.
The methods I know of are: Personal Experience, Media Coverage, Questionnaire studies, and the opinions of the leaders. Personal experience has to many unrelated variables at play. Were do you live? Who do you talk to? What are the people you talk with willing to talk to you about?
Media coverage can be extremely biased as it is often times more profitable to focus on the number of eyes that you get, versus the accuracy of your information. Media coverage is also not focused on representing society. It makes more sense to report on a single important incident, than it is to report 100 quiet days were nothing happened.
Questionnaires would normally be a good method and it normally would be. However, there are a lot of variables at play. How was the data gathered, is it peer reviewed, what measures were taken to prevent the inherent biases (either from the researchers, or by the nature of the current method studying), what is the sample size? This would be the best way to categorize the party as a whole, should the correct measures be taken. I have a had a lot of trouble finding solid studies that strayed away from this, as the current landscape of political questionnaires and studies are full of studies containing these flaws. Note: If you have found a good study that takes the necessary precautions, I would be grateful if you shared it. I should also note, that I’m not exactly a professional fact checker and I do not know all the best ways to find these studies.
The opinions of the leaders of a given party can also be a great way to gauge. However this necessitates that all members of the party agree with their current leader. Not all republicans want to vote for trump, or may not be paying enough attention to be knowledgeable about him (As much as we argue and it does in fact matter who you vote for. America seems to have grown a sub culture of people who are mostly dis-interested in politics. My belief is that it is most likely either people who do not care about politics, or people that trust their overall government and fellow man enough to make the decisions for him in such matters).
Another thing is that there are many “sub-parties”, if you will, under republicans. I have seen traditionalist republicans argue with libertarian republicans. I have seen republicans who refuse to budge an inch on guns, debate republicans who believe gun control is necessary. I have seen republicans who hate the war on drugs, debate republicans who think alcohol should be banned. I believe the reason that we see a more unified message among-st the republican party is due to the general state of politics in america.
I believe the biggest reason for this unification in message; is because the transition of politicians to more of a focus on careers, rather than directly fighting for what you believe in. A great example is how most republican candidates have tried to get endorsements from trump, because they new he was popular and it would help there image. Lobbying is a huge industry at the moment, encouraging both republicans and democrats to vote differently.
I believe the second biggest reason is need for traction to get started. To win an election you need votes, to get votes you need money, to get money you need a source to get money from. If you’re rich, great! You’ll be among the few who get a chance to risk throwing money away for the hope of maybe making this country better. If you’re not a wealthy person (who as a population, appear to be less concerned with politics and more concerned with business.), than you can try to start small and try to talk to everyone to get them to spread your name. This can be a very slow process and also carries with it the risk of failure, as you may be a liability to future employers and you might be seen as evil by some. The final option is to pander. Try to get other political candidates to endorse you, and build connections. The downside is that you have to not only worry about what is best for the country/state/city, you now have to worry about how it will look to everyone else if you openly fight against the very people who built your political career.
Why do people who disagree with their party just vote for another party like the green party. The most common message that I hear is this: Voting for someone does nothing if they will never be elected. Most other parties are almost completely ignored. Thus my best option is to vote for the politicians closest to my beliefs, from the bigger republican party.
The current state of republican politics also makes it difficult to describe them through a study. Because of the sub-factions that exist, who may disagree heavily republican voting as a whole. Such people who would only vote for someone they believe is making the party a better party. This means that even if there is an over 50% population of republicans who are Nazis: there may still be “sub-parties” who act almost in-dependently from the republican party, excluding only the title of republican.
This is why I, and many republicans that I know, will agree with you that there is a dangerous group of Nazis within the republican party. There will be a dis-agreement as to how bad the situation is, but this the threat of Nazis is a commonly known fact. I think the use of this fact as a counterpoint to all republicans beliefs, has made many republicans afraid to say or admit how bad the situation is (out of fear that you will completely ignore any points they have to make. especially if they are one of these sub-parites). I also know republicans who refuse to vote for Donald Trump because of his handling of the Charlottesville incident, among other things.
I merely believe it to be more constructive to encourage republicans to look for the evils in there own party, just as democrats should within their own as well. While also trying to break down the adversarial nature of modern politics, as many people on both sides have a bad habit of shutting down when confronted, and encouraging collaborative political discussion.
P.S.
there are some errors in gammar and spelling I have to hop off now and I plan to fix them tomorrow.
Some of the language I used did not meet the standard that I am asking for from the final paragraph. As much as I hate to admit it, most of my other comments here were made while I was triggered. One of the few things that I hate this much about modern politics, has to be the over generalization and dismal of political beliefs made with arguments that do not actually question the policies or specific politicians. This is not an excuse for the way I went about commenting, and I want to condemn the way I spoke earlier. I only leave those comments up because I believe others have a right to see how the conversation got to this point, and how I have handled myself in the past.
“Wasn’t this the worst part of nazism?”
No, and this is disgusting. The worst part was disenfranchising jews, LGBTQI*-People, communists, disabled people, sinti&roma and others, locking them up under terible conditions and killing millions of them. Deliberatly killing millions of people to get rid of them.
It’s the root of why they did that. This one single flaw, is what caused them to commit those acts. There is a difference between proximal and root causes. Say my boat is sinking. The proximal issue is that the boat is sinking (the problem I want to fix), the root cause is that there is a hole in my boat (what is causing my problem). The proximal issue with Nazis is that they murder millions and committed horrible acts. The root cause why they did these things, was because they generalized these groups to the point that genocide seemed reasonable to themselves. Instead of looking at the contexts or considering that there are other morals at play.
The Nazis over-generalising Jews was secondary as a simple means to an end of removing a faction that disagrees with Nazis. The correct way to say it was that, to gain and maintain power, the conservatives scapegoated Jews, socialists, and dissidents, to help generate hatred and genocidal tendencies to ultimately overthrow democracy and remove threats to capitalist power. Jews, socialists, and dissidents in general were framed using any random words that sounded good and then killed off. Conservative values are based on using power in any way to achieve their goal; If you think that their contradictory, scapegoating, culture wars make no sense, its because you aren’t looking at it simply enough. they lie and get what they want each step of the way.
I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you trust the conservative lies about what a communism and socialism is.
Wikipedia has a correct definition - Communism - Socialism
Calling the NAZIs conservatives doesn’t quite fit the history of Germany. Conservative is an ideology that depends on time and place. For example conservatives in Russia are pro-communism.
In the case of the NAZIs they were progressive nationalist socialists advocating for a “third way" that was not liberalism or communism, which is why they campaigned hard as anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. Anti-semitistm was of course a major part of this as well and part of the reason Jewish conspiracy theories seem to simultaneously be associated with both marxism and capitalism.
The key overlap between Fascism, Nazism , and conservatism is that they are all exactly the correct definition on recent conservatism which is best described by the following quote from Frank Wilhoit:
Conservative values in the modern sense is
taking power, while saying whatever the hell helps you take power. It applies perfectly to Nazis and Fascists historically.If you zoom in on Nazi actions, you see clearly they have the same style as modern conservatives. I hope you don’t misunderstand, I’m not calling Nazis conservatives, I’m calling conservatives NAZIS; And by that I mean the way they use power. ANYTHING to gain and maintain power, the rest is an illusion.
Nazis acted as standard capitalists. They busted unions, they worked alongside corporations without really controlling them in a bad way for them etc. We have tons of jokes about old Nazi companies like Hugo boss that just mysteriously got overlooked and thrived for some time after WW2. They never lost their identity or profits, they gained a lot. It’s the people that lost, as always. Fascist(as we call it today) actions are really just capitalist democracies, that throw away the illusion of democracy, more specifically, they can no longer maintain the illusion - see conservatism.
As for Russians, I’ve been saying this a lot but… I don’t speak Russian, I don’t speak Mandarin, Haven’t visited them, I haven’t done the levels of research needed for me to have an opinion on this matter. There is also a wall of massive propaganda making it 10x harder to validate information. When people talk about modern Russia or China they are talking out their asses and the conversation devolves into shit-flinging. So I shut it down in my very first response. It’s a start of a bad-faith conversation at least 90% of the time. I’m not saying you would be in the 90%, just that I’m opting out of that part of the convo.
I don’t really know how to respond to this other than to say your worldview is firmly grounded in ideology.