Selling their user data to Google? They’re putting Google as the default search engine, but users are free to change it. I don’t understand how that’s the same. People would probably set it to Google anyway these days, which is a shame because Kagi is the best search engine.
I’d prefer something more secure but all of them just suck. I use DDG but more than half the time I end up needing to use !g to get the google results because DDG just isn’t that good.
I really wonder how people making such claims use it. I’m a dev and have to search daily and constantly and hardly ever don’t I find something and when I don’t, the Google bang doesn’t help either.
But maybe DDG just works well for technical stuff.?
If I’m searching for something very specific, I’m generally searching a site I already know will have the answer. So if I’m looking for how to do something with code or devops tools, I to limit my search to stackoverflow or another forum first, or the respective sites for their documentation.
For all of that, DDG works perfectly. And that’s what I use it for most of the time. I will use it to search within sites a ton. Like if I want to get information about a person, event, whatever, I’ll search Wikipedia first and dive through the article and sources there.
Where it tends to fail, and it could be my own fault, is just general searches where I’m not sure exactly what I’m looking for. Google is better at interpreting what I’m searching for and returning relevant results. DDG is like “here’s your results retard, search better next time”.
It still makes them highly untrustworthy. If Nestle would get caught putting lead into their chocolate would you still happily consume their coffee? “It’s just their chocolate”.
You could give SearXNG a try (for example https://searx.be/). There are multiple instances and it works by fetching results from different search engines.
Ive been using bing and bing copilot more and more for general stuff these last few months. Google needs to up their game. Other than that I use ddg as my first point of call
DDG largely uses the Bing API anyway so there’s no reason to use Bing itself over DDG. Bing is as bad or worse than Google for privacy.
I’m going to keep using DDG just out of principle and hope that their own crawler continues to get up to speed. They’ve definitely gotten better over the years but still leave a lot to be desired for search.
I like Kagi, a lot, I’ve used it since I first heard about it months ago. But I worry how willing people will be to pay for search. I hope it continues to improve long term because it’s a great service. I don’t plan to use anything else.
I’m with you on that. I’m also pretty sure my wife would leave me if I tried to force her to use some weird non-standard search engine and browser instead of the thing that literally everyone else uses. She has no interest in any of this.
But the fact that people like you and me, the kind of people who comment on threads like this on lemmy, are balking at the price of kagi really lays it all bare. $20/month is probably a tiny fraction of what google makes off selling our data. Their ad revenue is on the order of $25/person for every man, woman, and child in the world. But given that huge swaths of the world aren’t online, or are in a place where Google isn’t the default, or don’t make enough money to be worth marketing expensive products to, people like you and me and our families are probably worth many multiples of that annual revenue.
Yet we balk at paying to opt out, even though we know we should. If we’re not willing to do it, who is? And what possible solution is there?
I’m not balking at the idea of paying, I’m balking at the specific pricing. I understand that Google makes more than that but Kagi’s goal can’t be to be one of the most profitable companies on the planet.
Honestly I would love if they did something like per-search pricing where you can set a monthly limit rather than paying for either 300 searches or unlimited.
They sell not data, but users, like a youtuber of mil. subscribers sells their userbase to Black Surfshark Online. Exclusive, if limited, access, exposure. If Apple happened to pick anything else as a default search engine, the majority wouldn’t even mind. And they could’ve done even worse if they put unique ID to every search queue like Edge, Yandex do.
DDG is bing, and it’s not very great. The only way to not be a product is to pay for the product you use, otherwise the money has to come from somewhere.
Selling their user data to Google? They’re putting Google as the default search engine, but users are free to change it. I don’t understand how that’s the same. People would probably set it to Google anyway these days, which is a shame because Kagi is the best search engine.
Apple does make a big deal about having sensible and secure defaults. This is the issue
Yeah, but are they doing this?
They are receiving billions so that their users use Google search - why is this a question?
But they aren’t literally handing over user data to google, are they?
No. That would be if they set up Apple Search and sent some or all of the resulting data to Google.
This is much worse. They don’t have to do any work, and so they have no control over what data their devices give Google.
I’d prefer something more secure but all of them just suck. I use DDG but more than half the time I end up needing to use !g to get the google results because DDG just isn’t that good.
I really wonder how people making such claims use it. I’m a dev and have to search daily and constantly and hardly ever don’t I find something and when I don’t, the Google bang doesn’t help either.
But maybe DDG just works well for technical stuff.?
If I’m searching for something very specific, I’m generally searching a site I already know will have the answer. So if I’m looking for how to do something with code or devops tools, I to limit my search to stackoverflow or another forum first, or the respective sites for their documentation.
For all of that, DDG works perfectly. And that’s what I use it for most of the time. I will use it to search within sites a ton. Like if I want to get information about a person, event, whatever, I’ll search Wikipedia first and dive through the article and sources there.
Where it tends to fail, and it could be my own fault, is just general searches where I’m not sure exactly what I’m looking for. Google is better at interpreting what I’m searching for and returning relevant results. DDG is like “here’s your results retard, search better next time”.
DDG is also a for profit venture and uses privacy more as a marketing ploy. They’ve been caught allowing Microsoft trackers.
That was their browser though and you shouldn’t use a Chromium based browser anyway if you value privacy (and the future of the web for that matter).
It still makes them highly untrustworthy. If Nestle would get caught putting lead into their chocolate would you still happily consume their coffee? “It’s just their chocolate”.
Yeah, you have to be wary of whatever online service you use. I don’t really trust DDG but I trust the alternatives less.
You could give SearXNG a try (for example https://searx.be/). There are multiple instances and it works by fetching results from different search engines.
Ive been using bing and bing copilot more and more for general stuff these last few months. Google needs to up their game. Other than that I use ddg as my first point of call
DDG largely uses the Bing API anyway so there’s no reason to use Bing itself over DDG. Bing is as bad or worse than Google for privacy.
I’m going to keep using DDG just out of principle and hope that their own crawler continues to get up to speed. They’ve definitely gotten better over the years but still leave a lot to be desired for search.
Fucking lol.
?
Just arbitrarily mentioning kagi is the best when there are tons of better options.
Are there any other options for paid ad-free search engines besides Brave Search?
I like Kagi, a lot, I’ve used it since I first heard about it months ago. But I worry how willing people will be to pay for search. I hope it continues to improve long term because it’s a great service. I don’t plan to use anything else.
The pricing is just… challenging. I’m not going to pay $20 per month for my family to switch search engines.
I’m with you on that. I’m also pretty sure my wife would leave me if I tried to force her to use some weird non-standard search engine and browser instead of the thing that literally everyone else uses. She has no interest in any of this.
But the fact that people like you and me, the kind of people who comment on threads like this on lemmy, are balking at the price of kagi really lays it all bare. $20/month is probably a tiny fraction of what google makes off selling our data. Their ad revenue is on the order of $25/person for every man, woman, and child in the world. But given that huge swaths of the world aren’t online, or are in a place where Google isn’t the default, or don’t make enough money to be worth marketing expensive products to, people like you and me and our families are probably worth many multiples of that annual revenue.
Yet we balk at paying to opt out, even though we know we should. If we’re not willing to do it, who is? And what possible solution is there?
I’m not balking at the idea of paying, I’m balking at the specific pricing. I understand that Google makes more than that but Kagi’s goal can’t be to be one of the most profitable companies on the planet.
Honestly I would love if they did something like per-search pricing where you can set a monthly limit rather than paying for either 300 searches or unlimited.
They sell not data, but users, like a youtuber of mil. subscribers sells their userbase to Black Surfshark Online. Exclusive, if limited, access, exposure. If Apple happened to pick anything else as a default search engine, the majority wouldn’t even mind. And they could’ve done even worse if they put unique ID to every search queue like Edge, Yandex do.
Fuck Google and fuck Kagi.
I use DuckDuck Go.
DDG is bing, and it’s not very great. The only way to not be a product is to pay for the product you use, otherwise the money has to come from somewhere.
What did Kagi do to you?