You do distinguish “self-identifying feminists” individuals who are “pushing back” from the ideology of feminism which is a worthwhile distinction. Because even with a boilerplate feminism 101 ideology around dismantling the patriarchy (and oppressive gender norms) recognizes it harms men as well, and advocates for a full appreciation and humanization of both men and women (and others) as complex sentient and emotional beings (see, equality). The first time I encountered anything about creating space for men to express emotions 15 years ago was through feminists. There’s an entire field of men’s health focused on mental health and dealing with masculinities in health contexts that were built on understandings of gender pioneered by feminist/critical academia.
The people “pushing back” against such emotional space and empathy are advocating for things more aligned with misandry rather than feminism.
Yes, I agree; I don’t think that the people that have given me shit are actually living what they claim to believe. (…Which could also be hypocrisy.) I agree with the primary goals of feminism, if that primary goal is the dismantling of gendered power structures and gender norms so that people can be who they are rather than artificially–and negatively-constrained. OTOH, there are plenty of self-identified feminists that make broad generalizations about negative behavior, and apply that generalization to all men; I don’t think that’s helpful, unless your goal is to drive away potential allies such that you can feel justified in your rage.
The problem here is that the cases that I’m referring to are people saying that they’re feminist without believing in or following core tenets of feminism. If I said, for instance, that I was a Christian, and that I believed in sacrificing animals in the temple for receiving forgiveness from sins, you would quite rightly say that I was not a Christian at all, because I didn’t believe in or follow one of the primary tenets of Christianity (e.g., that Jesus dies for our sins, and that he fulfilled the law such that animal sacrifice was no longer necessary; I am not, for the record, Christian, nor do I believe in the idea of sin). Most feminists would argue that the primary tenet of feminism is tearing down gendered power structures; reinforcing gender stereotypes would therefore be not feminist.
Well no, I wasn’t making a judgement of whether or not those people were “true feminists”. I was making a judgement of their actions as being unaligned with the beliefs they claimed.
Humans do things that don’t align with their core values all the time. It’s called making a mistake or doing a bad thing. For example I’m staunchly anti-racism and try to check my actions. Doesn’t mean I never do racist things. Nor does it mean if I do a racist thing, suddenly I’m no longer anti-racist forever and all time. Who tf knows where the line is, but probably it’s around the point where you stop trying.
You do distinguish “self-identifying feminists” individuals who are “pushing back” from the ideology of feminism which is a worthwhile distinction. Because even with a boilerplate feminism 101 ideology around dismantling the patriarchy (and oppressive gender norms) recognizes it harms men as well, and advocates for a full appreciation and humanization of both men and women (and others) as complex sentient and emotional beings (see, equality). The first time I encountered anything about creating space for men to express emotions 15 years ago was through feminists. There’s an entire field of men’s health focused on mental health and dealing with masculinities in health contexts that were built on understandings of gender pioneered by feminist/critical academia. The people “pushing back” against such emotional space and empathy are advocating for things more aligned with misandry rather than feminism.
Yes, I agree; I don’t think that the people that have given me shit are actually living what they claim to believe. (…Which could also be hypocrisy.) I agree with the primary goals of feminism, if that primary goal is the dismantling of gendered power structures and gender norms so that people can be who they are rather than artificially–and negatively-constrained. OTOH, there are plenty of self-identified feminists that make broad generalizations about negative behavior, and apply that generalization to all men; I don’t think that’s helpful, unless your goal is to drive away potential allies such that you can feel justified in your rage.
Ah. So the no true Scotsmen argument.
The problem here is that the cases that I’m referring to are people saying that they’re feminist without believing in or following core tenets of feminism. If I said, for instance, that I was a Christian, and that I believed in sacrificing animals in the temple for receiving forgiveness from sins, you would quite rightly say that I was not a Christian at all, because I didn’t believe in or follow one of the primary tenets of Christianity (e.g., that Jesus dies for our sins, and that he fulfilled the law such that animal sacrifice was no longer necessary; I am not, for the record, Christian, nor do I believe in the idea of sin). Most feminists would argue that the primary tenet of feminism is tearing down gendered power structures; reinforcing gender stereotypes would therefore be not feminist.
Well no, I wasn’t making a judgement of whether or not those people were “true feminists”. I was making a judgement of their actions as being unaligned with the beliefs they claimed.
Humans do things that don’t align with their core values all the time. It’s called making a mistake or doing a bad thing. For example I’m staunchly anti-racism and try to check my actions. Doesn’t mean I never do racist things. Nor does it mean if I do a racist thing, suddenly I’m no longer anti-racist forever and all time. Who tf knows where the line is, but probably it’s around the point where you stop trying.