Do you want to feel good about your choice or do you want your choice to make a small difference?
I want wars and genocides and murders and suffering and death and sickness to be minimal or zero. I want my fellow humans to be happy and healthy and thrive. I want my labor and work to be a positive thing for society and also benefit me fairly. I want to be a part of ensuring the ecosystem doesn’t collapse. I want to learn from others and I want to be able to teach others. And I have a feeling you agree with me on those things.
But I also am approaching this from reality. And I am acknowledging that with our voting system as it is today, you can either vote for 1 of 2 candidates or you don’t care who wins and are complicit with their choices the next 4 years. That is simply reality.
But I also agree with you that ideally we could vote for not-genocide. I want that so badly. But we have to have a viable means to do that first. So let’s work together and push for a system where our voices can be heard and can make a difference. In the meantime I’d rather see Biden in office which gives us a chance for those things vs Trump which has said and demonstrated he will try to end it.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I’m trying to make the point of reality vs ideal. And we aren’t at ideal yet, so we need to work toward it.
You sound reasonable, truly. BUT, I have zero tolerance for genocide. I don’t think that is an extreme position. I couldn’t sleep at night because I rationalized genocide. It is that bad. I wish more people would do the same.
The problem with putting your foot down on this issue and refusing to help prevent Trump from winning is that we are all saying that historically, in every previous election, doing that ends up getting the worse of 2 options elected.
It’s like we have a burning building full of people and the only water we have is Nestle, so you stand there declaring you will not use that water and be complicit in using that product. But that is ignoring the problem of the fire. Let’s put the fire out first with whatever we can use and THEN we need to be talking and fighting as hard as we can for better options later.
That’s what everyone is trying to get you to see. We have a fire. Here. Now. Let’s put it out. Then we can all go work on the next issue of not using toxic water.
This really is a Trolley Problem, because both main candidates lead to some amount of suffering. But refusing to pull the lever IS making the choice to let the default happen and that DOES still make you complicit just as much as pulling the lever left or right does.
We are all stuck in this and there is no ethical choice no matter what you do, so we are trying to choose the least total harm.
And again, with our voting system it’s a first one across the finish line wins thing. Two candidates have tons of momentum and have gotten 90% there, side by side, all the other candidates are essentially barely off the start line. It makes no sense to try to push 3rd party now here in the final moments. You have to build that momentum WAY before now.
Here is another thing to consider. Imagine Trump or Biden in the next 4 years as president. Now also imagine we all get together and protest and campaign and demand action be taken to stop Israel. How likely is it that Trump would change his mind and help? How likely is it Biden would? To me, it sure seems like the former is a 0 and while the latter isn’t great, it’s above 0. Maybe there is a chance we can elect Biden and all protest and petition enough that he gets it and does something. Make it clear we demand some action to help stop the killing. But if Trump gets in there’s no chance.
Lastly, I just want you to know I don’t resent you for whatever choice you make. I hate the system, not you. We are stuck in a shitty system and I don’t want to be fighting with you, our fight is the bigger one. Obviously you will do what you feel is right, whatever that may be. And I will too. I hope we can make things better for the future, friend.
Yeah. It could just be that they are a leftist who just doesn’t have much at all of a factual understanding of 20th century history in any respect, and is substituting an overall rosy picture of anything non Western instead of even the broadest of broad strokes of factual statements and understanding
But… it could also be someone who didn’t have a Western education with its notable gaps in what we wanna admit happened, and instead had a different education with a different set of notable gaps on what we wanna admit happened, such that it didn’t even occur to them that praising the USSR’s justice system would be a totally bizarre thing to say from the perspective of being supposedly a Westerner talking to another Westerner.
This is their plan if they win, it’s in the open, and it’s the end of Democracy in the United States.
Do you want to not vote?
If you don’t vote you might not ever vote again.
Even if you aren’t lgbtq it’s highly unlikely that you don’t know someone who isn’t. They will suffer first.
Know any women? They’ll lose control over their bodies, thier periods monitored by the state
You like having sex? Don’t like getter her pregnant though? Hope that you like pilling out because say goodbye to condoms. Actually that’s a sin to spill your seed so you’re going to jail for that too.
Say that you actually want to have a baby? Maybe you waited to do it, but now you’re having trouble? Say goodbye to invitro fertilization. That’s not God’s way. If he wanted you to have a baby he would have made it happen. Clearly something is wrong with you. You’re defective and must be bad.
Oh, you call God by a different name or don’t believe?
Sucks, you’re going to need some corrective education. You Heathen!
It’s literally good to be A Handmaid’s Tale.
But stand by your principles.
Maybe it won’t happen here.
But what if it does?
When God Emperor Trump jails his enemies.
Suspends the constitution.
“Leader for life, I like the sound of that.”
Not voting for Biden supports Trump, who will be even worse regarding Gaza. So either you’re a troll, an idiot, or actively want to make genocide worse?
We are in hell, and there is no escape. You can vote to make a slight improvement, or not. Voting for a third party for president in this election cycle is nothing.
The Greens and Cornell West are good choices. I like West more but it’s looking like the Greens are the ones that will be centered around so let’s go for Jill Stein.
You will be ok voting for genocide. Gotcha
I mean this in the kindest way possible:
Do you want to feel good about your choice or do you want your choice to make a small difference?
I want wars and genocides and murders and suffering and death and sickness to be minimal or zero. I want my fellow humans to be happy and healthy and thrive. I want my labor and work to be a positive thing for society and also benefit me fairly. I want to be a part of ensuring the ecosystem doesn’t collapse. I want to learn from others and I want to be able to teach others. And I have a feeling you agree with me on those things.
But I also am approaching this from reality. And I am acknowledging that with our voting system as it is today, you can either vote for 1 of 2 candidates or you don’t care who wins and are complicit with their choices the next 4 years. That is simply reality.
But I also agree with you that ideally we could vote for not-genocide. I want that so badly. But we have to have a viable means to do that first. So let’s work together and push for a system where our voices can be heard and can make a difference. In the meantime I’d rather see Biden in office which gives us a chance for those things vs Trump which has said and demonstrated he will try to end it.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I’m trying to make the point of reality vs ideal. And we aren’t at ideal yet, so we need to work toward it.
You sound reasonable, truly. BUT, I have zero tolerance for genocide. I don’t think that is an extreme position. I couldn’t sleep at night because I rationalized genocide. It is that bad. I wish more people would do the same.
The problem with putting your foot down on this issue and refusing to help prevent Trump from winning is that we are all saying that historically, in every previous election, doing that ends up getting the worse of 2 options elected.
It’s like we have a burning building full of people and the only water we have is Nestle, so you stand there declaring you will not use that water and be complicit in using that product. But that is ignoring the problem of the fire. Let’s put the fire out first with whatever we can use and THEN we need to be talking and fighting as hard as we can for better options later.
That’s what everyone is trying to get you to see. We have a fire. Here. Now. Let’s put it out. Then we can all go work on the next issue of not using toxic water.
This really is a Trolley Problem, because both main candidates lead to some amount of suffering. But refusing to pull the lever IS making the choice to let the default happen and that DOES still make you complicit just as much as pulling the lever left or right does.
We are all stuck in this and there is no ethical choice no matter what you do, so we are trying to choose the least total harm.
And again, with our voting system it’s a first one across the finish line wins thing. Two candidates have tons of momentum and have gotten 90% there, side by side, all the other candidates are essentially barely off the start line. It makes no sense to try to push 3rd party now here in the final moments. You have to build that momentum WAY before now.
Here is another thing to consider. Imagine Trump or Biden in the next 4 years as president. Now also imagine we all get together and protest and campaign and demand action be taken to stop Israel. How likely is it that Trump would change his mind and help? How likely is it Biden would? To me, it sure seems like the former is a 0 and while the latter isn’t great, it’s above 0. Maybe there is a chance we can elect Biden and all protest and petition enough that he gets it and does something. Make it clear we demand some action to help stop the killing. But if Trump gets in there’s no chance.
Lastly, I just want you to know I don’t resent you for whatever choice you make. I hate the system, not you. We are stuck in a shitty system and I don’t want to be fighting with you, our fight is the bigger one. Obviously you will do what you feel is right, whatever that may be. And I will too. I hope we can make things better for the future, friend.
We JUST explained this all to you, Zoolander. Like a moment ago. Like JUST now.
No, you think you did but you spoke in circles.
Dude just take the L
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You will be okay enabling genocide+. Gotcha.
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Did you reply to the wrong person?
Yes. I meant to do the person above you.
Another idiot to block. Thanks
Ahh the old fingers in your ears method. Favorite tactic of the ignorant and weak.
Removed by mod
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Yeah. It could just be that they are a leftist who just doesn’t have much at all of a factual understanding of 20th century history in any respect, and is substituting an overall rosy picture of anything non Western instead of even the broadest of broad strokes of factual statements and understanding
But… it could also be someone who didn’t have a Western education with its notable gaps in what we wanna admit happened, and instead had a different education with a different set of notable gaps on what we wanna admit happened, such that it didn’t even occur to them that praising the USSR’s justice system would be a totally bizarre thing to say from the perspective of being supposedly a Westerner talking to another Westerner.
I have a theory which one it is
Not voting lets Trump do the genocide instead.
Voting is literally the least effective form of civil engagement.
But at least voting for Biden you’re maybe not going to see project 2025 come to pass.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=op0yk50uMlQ
This is their plan if they win, it’s in the open, and it’s the end of Democracy in the United States.
Do you want to not vote? If you don’t vote you might not ever vote again.
Even if you aren’t lgbtq it’s highly unlikely that you don’t know someone who isn’t. They will suffer first.
Know any women? They’ll lose control over their bodies, thier periods monitored by the state
You like having sex? Don’t like getter her pregnant though? Hope that you like pilling out because say goodbye to condoms. Actually that’s a sin to spill your seed so you’re going to jail for that too.
Say that you actually want to have a baby? Maybe you waited to do it, but now you’re having trouble? Say goodbye to invitro fertilization. That’s not God’s way. If he wanted you to have a baby he would have made it happen. Clearly something is wrong with you. You’re defective and must be bad.
Oh, you call God by a different name or don’t believe? Sucks, you’re going to need some corrective education. You Heathen!
It’s literally good to be A Handmaid’s Tale.
But stand by your principles. Maybe it won’t happen here.
But what if it does?
When God Emperor Trump jails his enemies. Suspends the constitution. “Leader for life, I like the sound of that.”
If voting for genocide let’s you sleep at night. Go for it.
Whatever you say tanky
Not voting for Biden supports Trump, who will be even worse regarding Gaza. So either you’re a troll, an idiot, or actively want to make genocide worse?
Which is it?
That is your only defense to genocide? Sad.
You people REALLY need a new bit. This one is old and tired.
Why would I care what you think?
Cause that’s how we grow as human beings. Try it sometime.
There’s no vote against genocide. You vote for genocide flavor A, genocide flavor B, or you say you don’t care which flavor of genocide you get.
Arguing against voting tor genocide flavor A means you support genocide flavor B, whether you want to admit it or not.
You’re trying to talk your way out of hell. There is NO reason that can make me vote yes to genocide. What about that can you not get?
We are in hell, and there is no escape. You can vote to make a slight improvement, or not. Voting for a third party for president in this election cycle is nothing.
There is a vote against Genocide you are just pretending it doesn’t exist.
Genocide is literally the only option. The only question is if it’s slow or turbo mode.
And not voting for Biden is Turbo Mode Genocide plus Project 2025 as a sweetener.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=op0yk50uMlQ
No there is a third option you are just deluding yourself into it not existing.
Just like MAGA Republicans saying they can only vote for Trump.
What’s the third option? We established that it’s not abstaining from voting, or voting 3rd party – so please, enlighten us.
The Greens and Cornell West are good choices. I like West more but it’s looking like the Greens are the ones that will be centered around so let’s go for Jill Stein.
Did you want to try again?
When did we establish that?
I established that voting for Genocide makes you complicit in Genocide.
Okay have fun in the internment camps if you’re not a white cismale straight Christian conservative.
2016 called they want their Hillary fearmongering back
Remind me, who ended up winning in 2016? It was the 3rd party candidate you backed instead right? And their presidency went swimmingly?
2024 called. They want you to stop spreading propaganda.
She’s eating babies and you can’t tell me different!
Also /s if it isn’t obviously.
No, have you heard about project 2025?
Enlighten yourself:
https://www.project2025.org/
Search through that, if you still want to not vote after reading that, at least you’re making an informed choice.
Though, you’re complicit in genocide if you don’t vote. Trump will bulldoze Gaza at the earliest convenience.
No, what’s actually happening here is that you are just pretending that a third party candidate has a chance of winning in a FPTP voting system.
Just admit that you’ve been campaigning for Trump by trying to get people to not vote for Biden. It’s obvious to anyone paying attention.
Don’t have to admit anything to someone that justifies genocide.
You’re just arguing in bad faith. Where did I ever say I justify genocide?
You know damn well I, or any other sane person, don’t condone the Gaza genocide. That is just your talking point.
You know the genocide will be worse under Trump but you keep trying to get Trump elected anyway. That shows your real intentions.
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Said the idiot that is ok with voting for genocide. 👌
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Voting for Joe?
Genocide Joe? then yes, these cucks will
^ Donald Trump approves this message.