I think it’s important to differentiate pacifism as a strategy – the total renunciation of anything that could be considered violence, often including even mere property damage – with non-violence as one tactic among many.

Many movements have had success using non-violence as a tactic in certain situations, so long as those movements don’t take the possibility of ever using violence completely off the table (pacifism).

It’s also worth noting that Mandela founded the ANC’s guerilla branch. Western media today portrays him as a purely non-violent, MLK-like figure, but in reality he was central to the ANC’s decision to begin an armed struggle against apartheid.

It’s almost as if:

During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it.

The people violently resisting a genocide are also good guys.

If someone is trying to kill you and everyone who looks like you, shooting back is good.

repairing harm through dialogue between victims, offenders, and community members

What if the person who committed the crime doesn’t want to engage in this process? What if the victim of the crime doesn’t want to? What if a person accused of a crime maintains their innocence? There are plenty of cases where restorative justice can work, but many others where it won’t.

addressing root causes like poverty, mental health issues, and substance abuse

the goal is to create a society where crime is less likely to occur

I think this is a much better framework to work with than prison abolition. Picking up the pieces after a crime has been committed is expensive and usually leaves you choosing from a range of bad options.

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Stop spamming my inbox

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why a commission that was looking at only part of the situation could not, by design, conclude to anything else that crime against humanity.

If there had been a genocide in Xinjiang, absolutely nothing would have stopped the U.N. from saying so. In its report on Gaza, the U.N. says Israel is “committing war crimes and the crime against humanity of extermination.” It cites the Genocide Convention and calls on Israel to obey the orders of the ICJ to stop breaking the Genocide Convention, i.e., to stop committing genocide.

This is what you see when there actually is a genocide, as opposed to atrocity propaganda.

Could also check the ICIJ if you’d like independent orgs.

I’m not your secretary. If you have something other than a wiki link (that quotes noted crank Adrian Zenz lmao), let’s see it.

Can you tell me how the following fits the category of “mistreatment of prisoners” more than “genocide” maybe?

Xinhua said You expressed the hope “that people in religious circles can inherit and carry forward the fine traditions to love the motherland and their faith, lead religious believers to follow the right faith and abide by the law and contribute to the healthy development of Islam”.

I ask for reputable international organizations that support your argument, you ignore that and spam a bunch of news articles. Most of those articles don’t seem to describe anything like genocide, anyway, setting aside the vast difference between “someone published an article” and “the U.N. sent investigators and here is what they found.” The article I quoted above is just a press release from China, for example – no reporting.

Who am I kidding, you aren’t even reading the shit you’re linking to.

I’m sure you won’t answer to this

What do you think is the point of whining and crying and shitting yourself like this 100 comments deep. Pathetic.

Get the fuck out of here

You confused me for someone else. An understandable mistake, but instead of simply acknowledging it or moving on you’re now harassing me over shit I never said or even commented on.

Once again, get the fuck out of here

One of them “only” speaks of crime against humanity so it’s the one you decided represented the truth.

I asked you why you are right and the U.N. is wrong. You’ve refused to answer that. You’ve also refused to provide any examples of a reputable international organization that disagrees with the U.N.

All you’ve done is lie about what the U.N. report says, pretend you don’t understand the difference between genocide and mistreatment of prisoners, and hit your “bootlicker” and “red fash” quotas for the day.

Weren’t you talking about nuking Paris

Lmao no, you’re bothering the wrong person

You keep rambling on source-free while not addressing anything I said.

This is how you “base your worldview on international organizations” yet wind up ignoring those organizations when they don’t back up your atrocity propaganda.

Fuck all the way off. You’re making up shit and getting mad at it because you can’t address my actual point.

I said:

Obviously there is room for criticizing China here – credible allegations of torture, ill-treatment, and discrimination should be taken seriously and stopped if those allegations are substantiated.

The point is that allegations about mistreating prisoners =/= concrete evidence of genocide.

Did you read the report you linked?

Did you? It contains zero allegations of ethnic cleansing, either.

Torturing prisoners – something the vast majority of countries that imprison people do – is a crime against humanity, but there’s a vast gulf between that and genocide. And that’s setting aside the difference between a credible accusation (what the U.N. found in China) and a mountain of irrefutable evidence (what we have in Gaza).

To analogize, you’re basically treating a credible accusation of assault as equivalent to being caught on camera committing multiple homicides. Not the same crime, not the same amount of evidence.

It’s not even really a target for the US empire

You’re just flat-out wrong, there’s not even any arguing it. Here’s a mountain of fearmongering about China, anyway. I’ll also refer you to the recent presidential and VP debates.

I wait for international organizations, independent reporters and numerous testimonies before reaching for conclusions.

The U.N. does not believe there was a genocide in Xinjiang:

The report published on Wednesday in the wake of the visit by UN High Commissioner of Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet in May, said that “allegations of patterns of torture, or ill-treatment, including forced medical treatment and adverse conditions of detention, are credible, as are allegations of individual incidents of sexual and gender-based violence.” …

The systems of arbitrary detention and related patterns of abuse since 2017, said OHCHR, “come against the backdrop of broader discrimination” against Uyghur and other minorities.

Obviously there is room for criticizing China here – credible allegations of torture, ill-treatment, and discrimination should be taken seriously and stopped if those allegations are substantiated. But credible allegations of this nature are on another planet from irrefutable proof of an actual genocide, like we’re seeing in Gaza. The actual report does not describe even allegations of genocide and does not use the word itself.

Why do you disbelieve the U.N. here?

Also, as a last note, it doesn’t even make sense that the Uyghur genocide would be used as atrocity propaganda simply because of the fact that nobody in the West cares about chineses

I don’t know about other countries, but I could link to 100 U.S.-based articles in the past few years fearmongering about China. Trump railed against China even before Covid, Covid spawned all sorts of anti-Chinese xenophobia and conspiracy theories, Biden made a big deal out of having the military shoot down a Chinese weather balloon that strayed over the U.S., etc.

China is an enormous economic competitor with nukes that is also communist. It is very much a target of the U.S. empire.

Honest question: what do you think of the concept of atrocity propaganda?

On October 10, 1990, a young Kuwaiti girl known only as “Nayirah” appeared in front of a congressional committee and testified that she witnessed the mass murdering of infants, when Iraqi soldiers had snatched them out of hospital incubators and threw them on the floor to die… Nayirah was revealed to be the daughter of Kuwait’s ambassador to the United States, and had not actually seen the “atrocities” she described take place

When I see the U.S. making claims about one of its enemies doing atrocities, I’m going to be skeptical, because they’ve told that exact sort of lie for the exact same reason plenty of times before.

The only people who use the word “tankie” in 2024 are terminally online. You are terminally online (you’re a mod on a tiny internet forum!) and are trying to call others terminally online.