I like art

You know and the fascism stuff.

Generational wars doesn’t do anyone any favors.

I would disagree, I think governments could stand to get bigger. Tax the wealthy more to close the income gap and get single payer healthcare, so our healthcare isn’t tied to our jobs.

That is a valid take. It also a sign that the current system isn’t working.

The people should be in control of the government and the government should spend money on its people.

Unfortunately, that isn’t the case right now. We need to work together to fix this.

At least my pie in the sky fantasy model of government is an actually fleshed out model of fucking government!

It’s not authoritarian or fascist is it?

Ohhhhh!

I think I see the problem. You and I have different definition of authoritarian.

For me, if Bernie becomes president and get rid of democracy, the house, the senate, and the supreme court and becomes the “supreme” leader of the US, that would be authoritarian.

For you (I think) it if Bernie creates a government reading program to help kids read better is is authoritarian because that would give power to the government regardless if we are a democracy or lead by a “supreme” leader.

Ok, so to be clear, I haven’t seen anything from Bernie to indicate that he is being my definition of authoritarian. So I don’t see an issue. You have been giving me example of Bernie doing and saying things that match your definition of authoritarian, which is quite a lot given he is a Democratic Socialist. You’re confused as to why I don’t see this as a problem. Am I close?

So I think this is one of those situations where we actually agree on what Bernie is about. It’s just that I think we should have reading programs and single payer healthcare and you do not.

Shit, I wish I had caught this sooner.

Good question.

Ok, so let’s say the artist does exactly what the AI does, in that they don’t try to do anything unique, just looking around at existing content and trying to mix and mash existing ideas. No developing of their own style, no curiosity of art history, no humanity, nothing. In this case I would say that they are mechanically doing the exact same thing as an AI is doing. Do I think I they should get payed. Yes! They spent a good chunk of their life developing this skill, they are a human, they deserve to get their basic needs met and not die of hunger or exposure. Now, this is a strange case because 99.99% of artists don’t do this. Most develop a unique style and add life experience in their art to generate something new.

A Software Engineer can profit off their AI model by selling it. If they are make money by generating images, then they are making money off of hard working artists that should be payed for their work. That isn’t great. The outcome of allowing this is that art will no longer be something you can do to make a living. This is bad for society.

It also should be noted that a Software Engineer making an AI model from scratch is 0.01% of the AIs being used. Most people, lay people, who have spent very little time developing art or Software Engineering skills can easily use an existing model to create “art”. The result of this is that many talented artists that could bring new and interesting ideas to world are being out competed by one guy with a web browser producing sub-par sloppy work.

For personal or public use, I’m fine with it. If you use it to make money, that’s when I get upsetti spaghetti.

Sorry for the delay been a crazy week.

No need to apologies, I hope things are going well.

Sander’s actions to dismiss problems in a desired government program is aligned with his ideology.

So your saying Sanders has an anti-government ideology? To say another way, Sanders want to maximize the amount of dismissed problems in the government? I mean maybe, but I am not buying it because he then worked to pass the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act. Why fix something you broke intentionally? I also don’t see how this is a step towards becoming an authoritarian leader. Trump is doing way better at becoming an authoritarian leader than Sanders and he isn’t even trying.

Some OG Source but the context here is, after Das Kapital.

For the sake of this discussion I will agree with you that the original concept of Socialism required an authoritarian leader. Bernie doesn’t claim to be a Socialist, he claims to be a Democratic Socialist.

Capitalism is a system that’s designed to orchestrate the economy of a state.

I don’t understand why we are talking about Capitalism. Did Bernie say he would get rid of it if he could?

But when given power he exercised that power in the same fashion that non-Democratic Socialists of the past have done.

Yes, if Bernie was authoritarian, I would agree. But no one knows that except Bernie. Any political leader can be a sleeper authoritarian. Even George Washington could have been an authoritarian and just waited too long to do anything about it. I can only work on what a leader has said and done, not what is secretly in their head. I haven’t heard or seen anything from Bernie that indicates he is authoritarian.

You’re the only one talking about suicide here.

Sander’s is likely the most sincere public figure in his support of his policies…

I agree that Sanders is a democratic socialist. I am confused as to why you brought this incident up then. I thought you were trying to prove that Sanders was an authoritarian, but it seems like we both agree that this was a mistake he made and not some outcome that he wanted to happen or that was aligned with his ideology.

But Socialism explicitly calls for creating a heavily centralize givernment

It’s not clear to me that Socialism explicitly calls for that, maybe I have missed that. But Bernie is a Democratic Socialist. I understand this to mean that democracy would be used to create the laws, not an authoritarian. A similar concept to what the US uses today.

My point is that Bernie believes in socialism so much that he’s willing to ignore US Vets dying

If Bernie cared about socialism so much he wouldn’t have ignored the US Vets dying. That made him and anything he stood for look really bad, if anything you could say that Bernie doing this was an OP against leftism.

Centralizing control centralizes control. It creates one single point of failure to create an authoritarian society. Venezuela is currently experiencing how well democracies protect from authoritarians.

Ok, so it sounds like your definition of authoritarian is any power given to any government. You don’t just have a problem with socialism. You have a problem with democracy as well.

So then do you dislike everyone? Leftists, Centrists, and Conservatives? Democrats, Republicans, and Liberals? Are these all authoritarians?

What if the guy trying to set up the Boy Scouts regularly called themselves a fascist?

Well, if they called themselves a fascist or did things with fascist outcomes I would be very concerned. I would probably try to vote that guy out or try some other way to get them removed and hope someone else could create a boy scouts program with out being fascist.

Remember when Bernie was the Senate’s overviewer of the VA, the largest Single Payer Healthcare system in North America? And he called reports given to his office of the wait list scandal (where the VA would internationally and systemically let vets die without care to avoid caring for them) a right wing conspiracy and dismissed them. Which prolonged the time before the scandal was dealt with.

Is your position that Bernie hates all US Vets and wants them to die? If so, how does killing vets help get the US to socialism? If anything, it makes Bernie look really bad.

So it’s not, single payer healthcare causes authoritarian societies. It’s centralized control of formerly private production administered by people with a Socialist mindset causes increasingly authoritarian societies.

How does centralized control government control of things result in authoritarian societies? I would agree with you, if we didn’t have a democracy, is that what you are getting at?

No, your interpretation is reactionary.

Think about it like this. Most people think boy scouts in the US are a good thing right? Let’s say we didn’t have boy scouts. And some guy said, “Hey, Nazi Germany had boy scouts and that did a lot of good things, and some bad things. Let’s make something like that, but not do the bad stuff”. Using your logic, you would say, “This guy is a Nazi because boy scouts are a Nazi thing and this will lead the US to become fascist and authoritarian”. But the thing is, you can create boy scouts without the fascism. Just like you can create single payer health care without an authoritarian leader, and you can create high literacy rates without being communist or whatever Cuba was.

I mean, if you can explain how single payer health care and literacy programs lead to authoritarian outcomes. I am very interested in hearing about that because I can’t see it.

P.S. I don’t think Bernie is the defacto though leader of the “normal” left wing, but I think he is close enough.

The closest thing this article has to a quote of Bernie Sanders was.

Sanders was amazed at the open “self-criticism” of his Soviet hosts, who admitted that the USSR was 10 or 15 years behind America in medical technology.

Which is not necessarily praising the ideology of the USSR. Just that self-criticism is not something you would see in a government like the USSR and it was refreshing.

Googling: “What is Bernie Sanders position on USSR” gets me:

Sanders has often emphasized the difference between his views as a democratic socialist and communist dogma, noting that he supports democratic elections and business enterprises that were inimical to the Soviet system.

I can see how a lot of people can mistakenly thing Bernie Sanders has a full throated positive option of the USSR because of all the propaganda. Remember if Bernie Sanders says something like “I like that the USSR provides health care for it’s citizens” or “I like that Casto era Cuba has the highest literacy rates in the world”, that does not mean that Bernie Sanders is in favor of doing everything that the USSR or Casto era Cuba has done. I didn’t search for Chavez era Venezuela because USSR and Cuba things seem like a bust and I just assumed that the Venezuela thing would be more of the same. If not, let me know.

If you have a quote from Bernie Sanders saying specifically we should become authoritarian or something like that. I would like to know about it.

I strive to be like Gonzo from the Muppet movies. That whatever is the very picture of the ubermensch.

Did Bernie Sanders praise the USSR or want to put people in the gulags? I don’t remember him ever doing that. Got a link?

That’s what they keep telling me, but every step closer to free market capitalism we take seems to make things worse.

Listening to the far left to see if you like leftist ideas it like listening to the far right to see if you like conservative ideas. Both are just going to tell you that everyone needs to die.

Try talking to a non-crazy proponent of an ideology before you come to a conclusion.