- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
- privacy@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
- privacy@lemmy.ml
Why do people assume Signal messenger isn’t spying on you? Yes, it has open source code, yes it uses end-to-end encryption. But we can’t check which code runs in the version from Google Play or the App Store. And also their APK (IPA) build process is essentially a black box, it doesn’t use GitHub Actions or some other transparent build system. I also heard from Techlore that they add a proprietary part to the apk to filter bots. The only thing I can assume is that people scanned the traffic coming from the app (Android), phone (iOS) and checked whether encryption keys were being sent to Signal or not. But it seems to me that this can be also circumvented. What do you think?
P.S. I myself use Signal to communicate with relatives and friends. Definetly not a hater.
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Well outside of the general open source and E2EE stuff, there are a few more things.
They’re under a non-profit foundation and charity to which donating is tax-deducatble. That means they have to publicice their financial numbers. Selling data would generate a sudden revenue, which would draw attention.
They also regularily do external audits, both from external audit organisations as individuals. This list was made in august 2022, you can likely find a newer list somewhere. I just did a quick search for you. https://community.signalusers.org/t/overview-of-third-party-security-audits/13243
Signal also runs perfectly fine without anything Google btw. It uses PlayServices only if you have it on your phone (otherwise it just uses WebSockets), as it preserves battery life. However, it doesn’t actually send data to Google over PlayServices. Instead it sends an empty notification, which wakes the phone and is recognised by Signal as a trigger to make it connect to Signal servers to grab data directly from there. If you wish, you can check this in the code yourself. I guess you may also be able to confirm this looking at network traffic from and to your phone.
Also a note on the E2EE. Another important thing is that not only the message is encrypted, but also the metadata. Unlike most other chatapps like WhatsApp; who knows where you are, who you talk to, how often, etc. You could theoretically also check this by checking outgoing traffic if you wish.
This also means that unless they somehow secretly have a copy of your private key, there is no data for them to sell anyways. The fact that even in court they’ve didn’t have data to show, them passing many external audits without this being a point (sometimes issues are found, which is normal. If audits are always perfect I’d be more warry. But never on this point afaik), and that nothing in the code nor internet traffic points to them possibly having this, makes me not that worried about the idea that they secretly got a copy of peoples private keys.
So overal while it’s perhaps technically possible they secretly run something else on their server and build a back door to read your messages, they are many things that show they don’t, and literally nothing that would say they do. And neither does there seem to be any reason why, since they can’t sell it nor give it in court. So unless you believe they have some evil bigger plan, I don’t see the reason to doubt.
And a little note. Privacy people can be crazy, and I say that in a positive way! If you can check it, people no doubt have, and issues would’ve been found. Yet many people deep into it still vouch for it. That says something. And the less crazy people profit of this. This is similar to why many big FOSS projects are considered safe even if you didn’t check all code yourself. And before you say “but if everyone thinks like that”, realise that the craziest don’t trust other people either. While smaller projects could hide perhaps, the real big/famous projects like Signal, Linux, LibreOffice, etc would fall trough as soon as they start doing shit.
Why does Signal need my phone number?
Signal is subject to National Security Letters in the U.S.
Signal received funding from Radio Free Asia owned by the U.S. Agency for Global Media with ties to the CIA.
They seem to have a history of needing quite some time to release the server source code.
Here are some articles to read about Signal:
Says the person with a 4 day old account who’s bio is literally marketing-speak for a rival app:
The #messaging application with #anonymous identity, #untraceable content and military-grade #security. AKA the Dark Messenger.
Also, what is this infuriating nonsense where #every #word #is #tagged? #Can #you #not #type #normally? #Or #is #it #automated? #It’s #inane. And it hurts readability, which is really the bigger problem.
@133arc585
Yes, walking the first steps here in Mastodon :-)We are volunteers operating under an NGO based in Ireland… not rival of Signal, WhatsApp (or similar), but instead a complement for higher privacy
Sorry for the several hashtags, it’s just the habit when posting
not rival of Signal, WhatsApp (or similar), but instead a complement for higher privacy
Sure sounds like you’re a rival if your bio is accurate. What do you gain from positioning yourself as not-a-rival? Wouldn’t it be more honest and benificial to position yourself as a rival, and be very explicit in how and why you are better than alternatives?
Sorry for the several hashtags, it’s just the habit when posting
Why is this a habit though? It doesn’t help discoverability, at least not for random shit like #people and #policy and #terms. What is the point of that? Don’t all these services have full-text search, where searching for #Signal and Signal are equally effective at finding comments mentioning Signal? And, even if it was exceptionally useful at helping discoverability, it really hurts readability: it becomes harder to scan and is visually cluttered. It takes me significantly longer to read somethign full of #tags than without, and I’m lately likely to forgo reading such a comment entirely rather than put up with line noise.
A rival sounds more like fighting against, but we rather designed a complementary solution that secure your data and metadata also while is use.
With Confidential Computing the messages are not traditionally stored/deleted, but they operate in a memory enclave so they cannot be retrieved with forensic technology… of course this comes with a capacity limit, focusing on (few) highly confidential comms.We’ll take the feedback about the hashtags in consideration. Thanks
That’s fair, rival does have a different connotation than “competitor”, which is a more accurate term here I think.
Is the source code fully available for your product?
The client-code is naturally open, while currently the core-engine is kept highly encrypted and we do not publish it (yet) as open-source.
There’s a bit of a debate about pros & cons of opening it, regarding confidential comms.
Anyway we are independently pen-tested by volunteers.
Thanks for asking 👍
