• UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Wife and I have a longstanding argument over whether free-will exists.

    I say it does and she has no choice but to say otherwise.

    • TriflingToad@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Consider this, free will can still be pre-planned. We can choose what we want to do, so what if it was pre planned? I still chose it.

      • thirteene@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Why do we need to bother executing it then? Choice has no value if agency to exercise it is revoked at any stage.

            • blind3rdeye@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              The meaning of free will is exactly what people are discussing when they talk about whether or not it exists. What does and what doesn’t count as free will is what’s up for discussion.

              • flashgnash@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                I think free will as a concept is kinda stupid I’ve yet to talk to anyone who can actually give it a solid definition that isn’t something like “it means we can do what we want”

                Either your decision is based on your personality, meaning it’s not free it’s a set calculation based on genetics and accumulated experience or it’s completely random meaning it’s not will at all

                • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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                  2 months ago

                  Can your free will be restricted in any way? Someone in prison has less agency than you or I, if that means his free will is restricted then we have more free will than he does. Therefore it exists.

                  • flashgnash@lemm.ee
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                    2 months ago

                    I would say his free will is not restricted

                    His decision making options are restricted but those decisions are just as much a product of his past as the ones we make out of prison, he’s still acting entirely based on external and internal forces

                    I’ll put it this way, if you were to make an exact copy of our universe at this moment and watch both of them play out, he’d almost certainly make the exact same decision both times, same applies to someone out of prison

                    My point isn’t that people don’t practically have agency in the decisions they make, because they obviously do. We just don’t know all the forces that influence that decision and it’s not useful to think about that, so we call it free will

        • theoretiker@discuss.tchncs.de
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          2 months ago

          I want to rebuke you but you name is even more triggering. There is no linear chaos, you need non-linearities or discontinuities for chaos.

          • linearchaos@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Glad I could be of use.

            The concept behind linear chaos is that the chaos is bound at one point. The theoretical cone of influence can only move in one direction and widen at a set rate. Kind of a mashup of chaos over time.

              • linearchaos@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Yeah, chaos crops up in linear systems sometimes in unexpected places.

                There are a couple of scientific papers on it, and at least one textbook. Even at that I’m not sure it’s a well-accepted theory, but the idea suits me.