• MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml
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    1 month ago

    I don’t understand this meme. Ukraine was more or less a neutral state before 2014 and then there was a pro-Western coup that removed the democratically elected gov and set off the violence that is still going on. That’s what drew Russia into the conflict.

    • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      Former President Viktor Yanukovych actually denied democracy by choosing not to sign a trade agreement with the EU, which was overwhelmingly approved of in parliament and by the public, in 2013 and he was ousted by Ukrainians. The Russians then became involved by fueling counterprotests and annexing Crimea.

      AFAIK there were no US sponsored groups, no boots on the ground, but vaguely some 5Bn USD given to Ukraine for defence between 1991 and 2014.

      • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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        1 month ago

        First there was an EU agreement. But then IMF added conditions to make the agreement impossible. That is what caused it/whole to be rejected. Nazis committing a black flag execution of protesters blaming it on government was the coup that caused Yanukovych to flee. The US installed coup rulers imposing apartheid against Russian speakers, and the Odessa massacre is what caused Crimea to leave, and Donbas to demand autonomy.

        • aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee
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          1 month ago

          Odessa massacre? I’m a pinko sympathizer and try to hear out so called “tankies” because they often have a point. but it is just ahistorical to call it a massacre. There is video footage of the pro maidan protesters bringing construction scaffolding to the building to help people escape.

          • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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            1 month ago

            What the living NAFO fuckery is this bs???

            That there were survivors means it wasn’t a massacre?

            Maidan was a CIA/NGO inspired liberal movement that “just wanted additional trade with EU” as an innocent premise, but with usual CIA/NAZI motives. After CIA/Nazis executed protesters and blamed government, and the US coup that handpicked nazi rulers for Ukraine, Maidan was never heard from again. It sure is not a “pinko” source that claims some rescue attempts with scaffolding existed, but most deaths were the result of nazis shooting those trying to get out of windows. So blatantly absurd to deny the massacre based on an undocumented fiction that some assistance attempts were made. Was there no ww2 holocaust if a german helped a jew escape?

            https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2014-008919_EN.html

            https://mronline.org/2024/05/06/10-years-of-injustice/

    • girsaysdoom@sh.itjust.works
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      1 month ago

      The past leader of Ukraine was in Putin’s pocket. Zelensky actually changed this and obviously being annexed kinda makes it hard to be neutral, so I’m not sure where you got that from.

      • Arthur Besse@lemmy.ml
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        1 month ago

        The past leader of Ukraine was in Putin’s pocket. Zelensky actually changed this

        Huh, that is interesting. Can you tell us any more about his predecessor?

              • Arthur Besse@lemmy.ml
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                1 month ago

                That’s literally about his predecessor.

                The link you posted is from January 2014, which is the time period of his predecessor’s predecessor’s predecessor.

                Zelensky’s presidency started in 2019. As late as 2018, he was still releasing comedy films which were being banned in Ukraine under his predecessor’s anti-Russian cultural laws.

                If you want to brush up on recent history, this video Ukraine: The Avoidable War is not bad.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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                  1 month ago

                  Oh for fuck’s sake, this has all been about you being Captain Literal? Yes, I know Poroshenko directly preceded Zelensky. That’s not what anyone is talking about here.

                  • Arthur Besse@lemmy.ml
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                    1 month ago

                    That’s not what anyone is talking about here.

                    Look again at the comment i replied to and quoted in my initial comment which you subsequently replied to. Is there another way to interpret it which I’m missing?

      • MisterScruffy@lemmy.ml
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        1 month ago

        So was Ukraine neutral before 2014 or not? The meme seems to be saying it was neutral and I’m also saying it was more or less neutral.

        Are you disagreeing with the meme?

        • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          lmao

          The embarrassment of the Nuland-Pyatt call was that our diplomats were speaking quite undiplomatically about our partners and the then-opposition in Ukraine, not that it implied a coup. Euromaidan happened over a desire to integrate with the EU, while our diplomats said “Fuck the EU” in a private call about the players in the ongoing negotiations, preferring the UN. Unless your argument now is that the US was actually in opposition to Euromaidan and EU membership all along, or that the UN is a CIA plot too?

          Keep peddling your “Color Revolutions were a CIA plot!” fantasies though.