the point is. the f35 is a horribly over budget and unneeded venture. the USA doesn’t need it. it’s a military industrial complex thing.
and you guys in chat going I don’t get it… sigh. part of the problem lol.
the uae buying them doesn’t change the fact we’ve spent like ten x the budget. also lots of countries buy stuff from us. like the world’s number one arms dealer so I don’t even get YOUR point.
that’s not a success and you’re coping lol. there’s an odd amount of America simps here lolol
The F35 is a good capable platform, better than the f22 in a couple of ways. Though Lockheed was able to milk the sustainment contracts to be very lucrative for themselves. But it’s the most technologicaly advanced fighter ever, brings tons of new capabilities to the US and it’s allies, and is very sought after around the world.
Would you disagree? Are you arguing it doesn’t work, is too expensive per unit, too expense to develop, or that the US doesn’t need it?
I would agree on point three only, because they went into production before validation was finished which turned out to be a bad wager. But the platform itself is still pretty great despite is flaws. Hence why the UAE wants them.
yes I disagree completely. at the current price point out current arsenal is already more than capable than pretty much the entire world bro.
we don’t need another fucking fighter jet when there’s people in your population struggling with medical debt. with not being able to afford where they live and no means to escape and ending homeless. With schools struggling for funding. with a decaying railroad system and general infrastructue.
seriously all the things and protections that made this country great pre Reagan (well besides y’know blatant segregation) are EVISCERATED and you guys are here giving them a pat on the back for freaking 1trillion plus to a still not complete and fully ready project. and even if it was complete we’ve FAR exceeded the value. like it’s just not needed bro it’s greed.
it drives me insane to see this, and how apathetic everyone is. are we ever going to wake up from this madness?
You’re talking about reducing military spending in general, not about F35 specifically? I actually agree then. But the F35 isn’t a bad bang for the buck for increasing combat power. Are we taking about the F35 or about military spending?
BOTH there is no seperating the two??? the f35 is an example out of many examples of govt over spending.
and again the f35 is AWFUL for bang to the buck? what war do we need it for? what are we missing?
https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35
btw it’s awful it’s no secret that it is mid engineered
you’re not gonna gas light me into saying that those are two separate discussions when they aren’t.
there’s no need to like, defend the f35 project. lmao the actual defense industry is aware of its issues.
just trying to figure out where this ‘bang for our Buck’ is coming from when there no shot were going to sell enough to offset the cost as well as them being buggy and hard to maintain.
.you do know the us already has the strongest military BY FAR. It’s pointless.
I think you fundamental misunderstand what military spending like the f35 is for. It’s purpose is to keep a war (like China invading Tiwan) from happening because the other side knows that it won’t do well. A successful system isn’t necessarily one that does well in combat, but one that keeps the fight from happening in the first place. Since war is so astronomically expensive, even extremely expensive systems are worth it to prevent war.
Also, compare to other modern fighters. F22 is something like 5x the price, it’s 20M cheaper than the f15ex, and is only about 15M more expensive than the super hornet. It offers a high stealth capability at a significantly lower price point and higher quality than the f22.
If you buy into the amount of combat power needed to deter a war (I think it should be much lower than current US estimates, but I guess Russia still managed to miscalculate) then they’re a good investment. Any which way, they’re a good modern addition to a very high tech fighting force.
do I need to keep going? or are you going to try to keep gas lighting me into agreeing that actually you’re right all the f35 spending is justified and its actually not just a collasal fuck up?
you’re so dellusional mate if you think it’s the f35 program keeping china from invading and not our deep economic ties with them.
f22 is more but it didn’t cost trillions to make.
not a good point. and no that is not the purpose of military spending that’s the propaganda lockee heed Martin lobbiest shrill to our idiotic Congress people.
sheesh we are doomed because people like your need to bend over backwards to justify outrageous military spending.
and no I’m not thinking of the f16 tests, I’m thinking of the literal pilots that call the f35 a sack of shit
also a higher stealth capability… for what mate for what we already have uavs for recon. military satellites. tapped into the grid of the entire world through back doors in like phones and shir.
we don’t need a fucking jet and nothing you say will ever change that. you’re literally justifting bullshit.
us not putting money into dumb shit like this won’t change the fact that we are the world’s largest nuclear power. thats the real thing keeping war at bay it’s MAD not some jet bro when we have literally arsenal a on arsenals already of just aircraft CARRIERS
and also lets not forget America loves funding wars lol. so I don’t even know what you’re on about. sometimes it seems like we justify wars elsewhere so that sods like you can come and defend all this spending by pointing to problems we’ve created/exascurbated.
give me a break. f35 is the peacemaker you say? so ridiculous and you clearly don’t understand foreign policy of you think the way you do.
goddamn, just shut the fuck up. We can all see you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Every single response is trying to provide context and nuance but you continue to cry and equate any military spending to the future commission of war crimes, while conveniently ignoring how close to wwiii we actually are.
Open your goddamn eyes and shut your goddamn mouth until you learn something about this shit you cry about.
China’s J-35 may be more capable than any other platform that NATO fields, batting the F-35. We are looking at a shooting war between the US and China before the end of the decade.
While the United States is the primary customer and financial backer, the United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Canada, Turkey, Australia, Norway and Denmark agreed to contribute US$4.375 billion toward the development costs of the program.
Just wanted to point out that by TRILLIONS you mean the $1.7 trillion figure. Common misconception, that is the estimated lifetime cost. Lifetime meaning r&d + production of 2000 (?) units for the next 60+ years.
once again it doesn’t even matter the project is still hundreads of billions over budget.
also just the fact that we haven’t spent the money yet changes nothing.
you lads don’t like to differentiate when it comes to actually useful public spending like healthcare initiatives or education reform.
so why should I distinguish here? in fact you’re right. that figure will likely INCREASE
keep coping. keep coping that its actually good spending and that its all a okay.
keep coping while people die and can’t afford healthcare. while logistics companies struggle on failing infrastructure
honestly this has to be a joke if you think it changes anything. smh
I’m done with this convo.
my point is that its fucking dumb pointing out uae when America does dumb things on a much larger scale. we deserve at least 10x edits lmap
also we use slave labor here as well. look into the prisons
you pointing out that 'actually we haven’t spent the full 1.7 trillion yet… we’re just 183 billion over budget rn and those are just lifetime costs is honestly so dumb and distinction that adds nothing else to the conversation and doesn’t change the fact that
literal air force pilots hate the damn thing and you guys are over here posturing endlessly
the amount of defense propagandists is honestly sickening on this thread.
how about you guys roll this hard for things that actually help the people and not some malfunctioning stealth jet
when we could easily just don’t omit selling our current arsenal. do you guys realize how vast out arsenal already is! how deep our ties are economically to our allies? that we make guns too that sell way faster than jets? like why are you so attached to a failing jet project?
it’s honestly funny. and then I have all the like Lockheed Martin employees just down voting me because they don’t wanna hear that their prize project is actually garbage and more ‘justified’ defense spending lollololol.
you guys are insane if you don’t already think our current k military is more than capable.
I’m so sick of this arms race bullshit. you guys are fighting a ghost at this point. f35s ain’t gonna scare china. it’s not gonna scare russia.
it’s just bs. and by the way… diplomacy is a thing too.
sooo we could always try that.
I’m just saying we don’t need another fucking jet. we just don’t.
what are you talking about mate. I’m saying I want them to spend it on healthcare… on housing… on transportation and better infrastructure.
and by the way. I’d take the gaudy buildings over a fucking malfunctioning (a pilot just recently had to EJECT DURING A TEST FLIGHT)
… expensive to maintain stealth jet (1.7 trillion JUST FOR THIS)
when we already have the world’s largest arsenal by far.
which…btw what do you suppose we do with all the jets and arsenal we already have???
how is this not just us yet again over manufacturing.
what war are we going to start next to justify this.
As a Finn he doesn’t personally benefit from U.S. citizens having affordable health care but the weapons they develop may be used to protect HIS homeland. Like everyone else he has personal interests.
also lets not forget. the gaudy buildings won’t be used to commit yet more war crimes that get hand waved away. so imo I’ll take the fucking buildings.
we need more gaudy buildings here every fucking city looks the same it’s all surburbia fucking cars nightmare.
or defend a country from a fascist genociding dictator LIKE PUTIN. WE ARE SEEING IT IN REAL TIME. You think he’ll stop with Ukr?? The countries bordering Ru sure don’t think so, nor the rest of NATO.
Wake the fuck up, the world is far more complex than “don’t modernize any defense resources, nothing will ever happen except for the possibility of war criming others!”
Do ya see how fucking short sighted and ridiculous that is?
keep yelling into the void with this whataboutism bullshit, i see you just reply to yourself over and over lmao.
Anyway, it is absolutely NOT the same, not even because LM isn’t the goddamn US gov, but a contractor. The F-35 isn’t some wild pie in the sky bullshit that is completely unreasonable so they just throw money and slaves at it. In addition to this, you fail to realize (or conveniently fail to mention) just how much is actually learned from these projects. Does that make it worth it, not on it’s own but again that is orders of magnitude different then the projects the UAE push that this meme is referencing.
The F-35 Lightning II was conceived from the start of the project as having participation from many countries,** most of which would both contribute to the manufacture of the aircraft and procure it for their own armed forces. While the United States is the primary customer and financial backer, the United Kingdom, Italy, the Netherlands, Canada, Turkey, Australia, Norway and Denmark agreed to contribute US$4.375 billion toward the development costs of the program.**[1] Total development costs are estimated at more than US$40 billion, while the purchase of an estimated 2,400 planes is expected to cost an additional US$200 billion.[2] Norway has estimated that each of their planned 52 F-35 fighter jets will cost their country $769 million over their operational lifetime.[3] The nine major partner nations, including the U.S., plan to acquire over 3,100 F-35s through 2035,[4] which, if delivered will make the F-35 one of the most numerous jet fighters.
Jet fighters are not dumbass shit. Fucking full stop. Just look how impactful air superiority has been in Ukraine. But nah, fuck off right? Just tell all those eastern countries that daddy putin will take care of em. No need to continue to modernize your defenses!
You cry this place is worse then reddit, so fucking LEAVE.
my brother in christ, the USA has spent hundreds of billions-- nay TRILLIONS just on the f35 project
https://fortune.com/longform/lockheed-martin-f-35-fighter-jet/
lots of govts spend money on dumbass shit haha
So we’re in agreement lol
And the uae wants to buy them? I don’t get your point.
the point is. the f35 is a horribly over budget and unneeded venture. the USA doesn’t need it. it’s a military industrial complex thing. and you guys in chat going I don’t get it… sigh. part of the problem lol. the uae buying them doesn’t change the fact we’ve spent like ten x the budget. also lots of countries buy stuff from us. like the world’s number one arms dealer so I don’t even get YOUR point.
that’s not a success and you’re coping lol. there’s an odd amount of America simps here lolol
The F35 is a good capable platform, better than the f22 in a couple of ways. Though Lockheed was able to milk the sustainment contracts to be very lucrative for themselves. But it’s the most technologicaly advanced fighter ever, brings tons of new capabilities to the US and it’s allies, and is very sought after around the world.
Would you disagree? Are you arguing it doesn’t work, is too expensive per unit, too expense to develop, or that the US doesn’t need it?
I would agree on point three only, because they went into production before validation was finished which turned out to be a bad wager. But the platform itself is still pretty great despite is flaws. Hence why the UAE wants them.
yes I disagree completely. at the current price point out current arsenal is already more than capable than pretty much the entire world bro.
we don’t need another fucking fighter jet when there’s people in your population struggling with medical debt. with not being able to afford where they live and no means to escape and ending homeless. With schools struggling for funding. with a decaying railroad system and general infrastructue.
seriously all the things and protections that made this country great pre Reagan (well besides y’know blatant segregation) are EVISCERATED and you guys are here giving them a pat on the back for freaking 1trillion plus to a still not complete and fully ready project. and even if it was complete we’ve FAR exceeded the value. like it’s just not needed bro it’s greed.
it drives me insane to see this, and how apathetic everyone is. are we ever going to wake up from this madness?
You’re talking about reducing military spending in general, not about F35 specifically? I actually agree then. But the F35 isn’t a bad bang for the buck for increasing combat power. Are we taking about the F35 or about military spending?
what are you talking about?
BOTH there is no seperating the two??? the f35 is an example out of many examples of govt over spending. and again the f35 is AWFUL for bang to the buck? what war do we need it for? what are we missing? https://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35 btw it’s awful it’s no secret that it is mid engineered
you’re not gonna gas light me into saying that those are two separate discussions when they aren’t.
there’s no need to like, defend the f35 project. lmao the actual defense industry is aware of its issues.
just trying to figure out where this ‘bang for our Buck’ is coming from when there no shot were going to sell enough to offset the cost as well as them being buggy and hard to maintain. .you do know the us already has the strongest military BY FAR. It’s pointless.
I think you fundamental misunderstand what military spending like the f35 is for. It’s purpose is to keep a war (like China invading Tiwan) from happening because the other side knows that it won’t do well. A successful system isn’t necessarily one that does well in combat, but one that keeps the fight from happening in the first place. Since war is so astronomically expensive, even extremely expensive systems are worth it to prevent war.
Also, compare to other modern fighters. F22 is something like 5x the price, it’s 20M cheaper than the f15ex, and is only about 15M more expensive than the super hornet. It offers a high stealth capability at a significantly lower price point and higher quality than the f22.
If you buy into the amount of combat power needed to deter a war (I think it should be much lower than current US estimates, but I guess Russia still managed to miscalculate) then they’re a good investment. Any which way, they’re a good modern addition to a very high tech fighting force.
Here’s more info on the f16 vs f35 tests you might be referencing. https://youtu.be/R_aID6_naNU
Here’s a good overview of the f35 and what capabilities it brings to the table. https://youtu.be/7SNALUoybt0
Both by Alex Hollings, award winning aviation journalist.
also F-35 Fighter Jet Problems Affect the Whole US Military Aircraft Fleet https://www.businessinsider.com/ongoing-f35-fighter-jet-problems-affect-whole-us-military-fleet-2023-1?amp
F-35 Aircraft: DOD and the Military Services Need to Reassess the … https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105341 F-35 fighter jets ‘mission capable’ only 55% of the time, watchdog report finds https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2023-09-21/f35-jets-crash-repairs-11446626.html
Not a Lot of F-35s Are Flying Right Now - Popular Mechanics https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a42912833/f-35-availability-problems/
Inside America’s Dysfunctional Trillion-Dollar Fighter-Jet Program https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/magazine/f35-joint-strike-fighter-program.html
do I need to keep going? or are you going to try to keep gas lighting me into agreeing that actually you’re right all the f35 spending is justified and its actually not just a collasal fuck up?
you’re so dellusional mate if you think it’s the f35 program keeping china from invading and not our deep economic ties with them. f22 is more but it didn’t cost trillions to make.
not a good point. and no that is not the purpose of military spending that’s the propaganda lockee heed Martin lobbiest shrill to our idiotic Congress people.
sheesh we are doomed because people like your need to bend over backwards to justify outrageous military spending. and no I’m not thinking of the f16 tests, I’m thinking of the literal pilots that call the f35 a sack of shit
also a higher stealth capability… for what mate for what we already have uavs for recon. military satellites. tapped into the grid of the entire world through back doors in like phones and shir.
we don’t need a fucking jet and nothing you say will ever change that. you’re literally justifting bullshit.
us not putting money into dumb shit like this won’t change the fact that we are the world’s largest nuclear power. thats the real thing keeping war at bay it’s MAD not some jet bro when we have literally arsenal a on arsenals already of just aircraft CARRIERS
like what are you on about
and also lets not forget America loves funding wars lol. so I don’t even know what you’re on about. sometimes it seems like we justify wars elsewhere so that sods like you can come and defend all this spending by pointing to problems we’ve created/exascurbated.
give me a break. f35 is the peacemaker you say? so ridiculous and you clearly don’t understand foreign policy of you think the way you do.
goddamn, just shut the fuck up. We can all see you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Every single response is trying to provide context and nuance but you continue to cry and equate any military spending to the future commission of war crimes, while conveniently ignoring how close to wwiii we actually are.
Open your goddamn eyes and shut your goddamn mouth until you learn something about this shit you cry about.
China’s J-35 may be more capable than any other platform that NATO fields, batting the F-35. We are looking at a shooting war between the US and China before the end of the decade.
Uh yeah and that’s going pretty good
Pretty good at not working
In what way? Versatile, current gen fighter, sought after by every western country
Copied and pasted from another comment
F-35 Fighter Jet Problems Affect the Whole US Military Aircraft Fleet https://www.businessinsider.com/ongoing-f35-fighter-jet-problems-affect-whole-us-military-fleet-2023-1?amp
F-35 Aircraft: DOD and the Military Services Need to Reassess the … https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-105341 F-35 fighter jets ‘mission capable’ only 55% of the time, watchdog report finds https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2023-09-21/f35-jets-crash-repairs-11446626.html
Not a Lot of F-35s Are Flying Right Now - Popular Mechanics https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a42912833/f-35-availability-problems/
Inside America’s Dysfunctional Trillion-Dollar Fighter-Jet Program https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/magazine/f35-joint-strike-fighter-program.html
Yea no the f35 is complete ass, they’re cartoonishly overpriced for how often they break down
How do they stack up vs other same gen/same stealth models?
Are foreign contracts drying up? Netherlands and many others are frothing for them.
exactly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_procurement
Just wanted to point out that by TRILLIONS you mean the $1.7 trillion figure. Common misconception, that is the estimated lifetime cost. Lifetime meaning r&d + production of 2000 (?) units for the next 60+ years.
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-23-106047
once again it doesn’t even matter the project is still hundreads of billions over budget. also just the fact that we haven’t spent the money yet changes nothing.
you lads don’t like to differentiate when it comes to actually useful public spending like healthcare initiatives or education reform.
so why should I distinguish here? in fact you’re right. that figure will likely INCREASE
keep coping. keep coping that its actually good spending and that its all a okay. keep coping while people die and can’t afford healthcare. while logistics companies struggle on failing infrastructure
honestly this has to be a joke if you think it changes anything. smh
I’m done with this convo.
my point is that its fucking dumb pointing out uae when America does dumb things on a much larger scale. we deserve at least 10x edits lmap
also we use slave labor here as well. look into the prisons
you pointing out that 'actually we haven’t spent the full 1.7 trillion yet… we’re just 183 billion over budget rn and those are just lifetime costs is honestly so dumb and distinction that adds nothing else to the conversation and doesn’t change the fact that literal air force pilots hate the damn thing and you guys are over here posturing endlessly
how is this site worse than Reddit lol.
https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison
the amount of defense propagandists is honestly sickening on this thread. how about you guys roll this hard for things that actually help the people and not some malfunctioning stealth jet
when we could easily just don’t omit selling our current arsenal. do you guys realize how vast out arsenal already is! how deep our ties are economically to our allies? that we make guns too that sell way faster than jets? like why are you so attached to a failing jet project?
it’s honestly funny. and then I have all the like Lockheed Martin employees just down voting me because they don’t wanna hear that their prize project is actually garbage and more ‘justified’ defense spending lollololol.
you guys are insane if you don’t already think our current k military is more than capable. I’m so sick of this arms race bullshit. you guys are fighting a ghost at this point. f35s ain’t gonna scare china. it’s not gonna scare russia. it’s just bs. and by the way… diplomacy is a thing too. sooo we could always try that.
I’m just saying we don’t need another fucking jet. we just don’t.
https://www.pgpf.org/finding-solutions/national-security?utm_source=link&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=lesson
As a Finn, I’m much more glad about this sorta spending than some gaudy buildings
what are you talking about mate. I’m saying I want them to spend it on healthcare… on housing… on transportation and better infrastructure.
and by the way. I’d take the gaudy buildings over a fucking malfunctioning (a pilot just recently had to EJECT DURING A TEST FLIGHT) … expensive to maintain stealth jet (1.7 trillion JUST FOR THIS) when we already have the world’s largest arsenal by far. which…btw what do you suppose we do with all the jets and arsenal we already have??? how is this not just us yet again over manufacturing. what war are we going to start next to justify this.
it’s so sickening
As a Finn he doesn’t personally benefit from U.S. citizens having affordable health care but the weapons they develop may be used to protect HIS homeland. Like everyone else he has personal interests.
Finland is in NATO. USA is the main power in NATO. Big USA military good for us.
Jesus Christ we already have a big military wtf are you on about?
you’re saying us doesn’t already have a big military?!
I don’t know if you’ve been drinking or something but no I said nothing like that.
also lets not forget. the gaudy buildings won’t be used to commit yet more war crimes that get hand waved away. so imo I’ll take the fucking buildings.
we need more gaudy buildings here every fucking city looks the same it’s all surburbia fucking cars nightmare.
or defend a country from a fascist genociding dictator LIKE PUTIN. WE ARE SEEING IT IN REAL TIME. You think he’ll stop with Ukr?? The countries bordering Ru sure don’t think so, nor the rest of NATO.
Wake the fuck up, the world is far more complex than “don’t modernize any defense resources, nothing will ever happen except for the possibility of war criming others!”
Do ya see how fucking short sighted and ridiculous that is?
Difference is, an F35 has a purpose.
yea it’s purpose is gettin lockheed Martin’s CEO a new private jet maybe two 😂 and also crashing 😆😂😂😂
sick whataboutism
keep yelling into the void with this whataboutism bullshit, i see you just reply to yourself over and over lmao.
Anyway, it is absolutely NOT the same, not even because LM isn’t the goddamn US gov, but a contractor. The F-35 isn’t some wild pie in the sky bullshit that is completely unreasonable so they just throw money and slaves at it. In addition to this, you fail to realize (or conveniently fail to mention) just how much is actually learned from these projects. Does that make it worth it, not on it’s own but again that is orders of magnitude different then the projects the UAE push that this meme is referencing.
Lastly, if you actually looked into it, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_procurement
Jet fighters are not dumbass shit. Fucking full stop. Just look how impactful air superiority has been in Ukraine. But nah, fuck off right? Just tell all those eastern countries that daddy putin will take care of em. No need to continue to modernize your defenses!
You cry this place is worse then reddit, so fucking LEAVE.
it’s nice when people have an excuse to behave stupidly
and it’s just… make a scaled down f-22… such corrupt bullshit.