Gaza is controlled by terrorists who launched an attack against Israel and Israel is responding to the attack. Civilians die in war, but the Israeli goal is very clearly not genocide.
It’d be nice if they’d stop bombing hospitals and depriving millions of people of the basic necessities of survival then. Oh, and it’d also be nice if they’d stop referring to Palestinians as animals and shooting children in the west bank. And It’d be nice if Netanyahu would stop saying his goal is to annex the west bank and the Gaza strip. And if the Israeli state would stop encouraging settlers to illegally (by their own laws) occupy the west bank.
The attack was also 3 months ago. And tens of thousands of Palestinians have been murdered since then.
It’s not annexation, it’s called irredentism in this circumstance. Gaza is uninhabitable from structural and civil engineering standpoints because of Hamas’s tunnels. It has no capacity or resources to make itself safe. It has also proven it has no ability or desire to actually root out Hamas. So now their neighbor is morally obligated to do it for them.
I don’t agree. If the IDF warns people before they bomb a building and people refuse to leave the building, it’s their refusal that is the superceding cause, it’s a knowing assumption of risk.
Good actual example. First or second week of the war north of Gaza City. Everyone had already been airdropped leaflets and received masses text and emergency broadcast warnings to evacuate and head south and that anyone who stayed behind was in extreme danger. A few hundred thousand people did not evacuate.
IDF stumbles across a tunnel section is wanted to bomb underneath several blocks of apartments. Israel, as a world leader in the development of strategies to avoid civilian casualties, uses the cell phone network to call people still in the buildings. They start running door to door, IDF stays on the phone and promises not to bomb until the people leading the evacuations say everyone is clear.
As they evacuate, a number of people refuse. Hamas has been spreading Facebook posts saying that the calls are a hoax. They tell the caller, “prove this is real, fire a warning shot.” Bam, warning shot goes off. They say “there’s a lot of bombing, prove it’s real and do another warning,” bam another warning shell. They are convinced and so they continue evacuating. Everyone gets out, a resident tells the IDF it’s clear, several city blocks get demolished when IDF blew up the tunnels. 3,600 people used to live there and there were zero civilian casualties. The tunnels were completed destroyed.
In my view, the superceding cause to the apartments falling down was when Hamas built a tunnel underneath them and then used them to launch a massive terrorist attack–involving thousands of rockets (fired actually indiscriminately against civilians targets and infrastructure) and mass shootings at concerts and restaurants, on families just driving down the road, and on first responders who came in response to the gunfire–and then retreated back into those same tunnels, making them legitimate military targets.
This story is the exception only because everyone agreed to leave.
If people had refused to leave or been tricked or forced to stay behind by Hamas, in my example above, the superceding cause of their deaths would have been Hamas spreading rumors, in addition to all the propaganda is has already spread about dying with honor as martyrs, which caused people not to evactuate in the first place.
I guess the October 7 attackers thought they would retreat back into the tunnels and Israel was just going to say “darn, guess they got away!”
High civilian causalities? Are you serious? Whonos the one that killed over 20,000 people? Who are the ones starving half a million people? Is it Hamas? No Its Israel. “High civilian causalities” my ass. The IDF also caused some of the causalities on October 7th too. They shot indiscriminately and hit their own people.
Yes friendly fire in the chaos of hundreds of mass shooting, active shooter events.
In my country, that sort of chaos is why we have the felony murder rule and why it’s been used in past incidents of friendly fire to properly charge the criminals with such needless deaths, if first responders accidentally shoot each other or a bystander.
Allegations. UN member countries that support South Africa’s complaint at the UN:
Presidents of Algeria, Bolivia, Brazil, Colombia, Cuba, Iran, Türkiye, and Venezuela have all described Israel’s
actions as a genocide, as has the Palestinian President. State officials and representatives from Bangladesh, Egypt, Honduras, Iraq, Jordan, Libya, Malaysia, Namibia, Pakistan, Syria, and Tunisia.
They all have such impressive credibility on human rights and totally don’t have an ax to grind against or an Iran to suck up to. /s
Because you like to pick and choose things to make your “argument” of accepting genocide, let me just quote all of the high ranking Israel officials saying God awful Nazi shit:
Netanyahu said “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible.” The Bible says “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants.”
IDF Major general Giora Eiland wrote “Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist”.[23] He added “Creating a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza is a necessary means to achieving the goal.”[23] Israeli historian Omer Bartov writes that no Israeli politician nor anyone in the IDF denounced this statement.
The spokesperson for the Israeli army said, in regards to Israel’s bombing of Gaza, “the emphasis is on damage not accuracy”. This statement was interpreted by legal scholars as intention of destruction.
Look at these Israeli Nazis creating their own little holocaust.
You may want to read this article. It clarifies the misunderstandings you are referencing in your comment. The statements to which you are referring are mistranslated and misunderstood.
This article is paywalled. And all I could read was that you can’t use statements from people with no direct role in military operations. You think none of those people have influence over their military operations? You don’t think Benjamin Netenyahu has influence to what the IDF does?
Tell me how they say those awful things, and then along with that they intentionally starve Palestinians and don’t give them water and you say that isn’t connected and that it isn’t an attempt at culling the population.
I agree. Civilian death tolls have been rapidly going down, not increasing. The airstrikes match up with the tunnels systems. There is no credibility to claims of “indiscriminate” bombings. The high number of civilian casualties is simply and readily explained by the fact that Hamas refused to let people evacuate and forced them to remain behind to be used as human shields and martyrs. High civilian casualties is one of Hamas’s weapons, and with Iran’s influence campaigns and astroturfing, it’s working to trick a lot of people whose ignorance and gullibility are going to allow Trump to win another term.
The only countries who’ve joined South Africa’s complaint to the UN criminal court are dictatorships, authoritarian , and/or theocratic shitholes such as Iran, Syria, Bahrain, Iraq, Brazil, Venezuela, Malaysia, and Cuba. The question South Africa’s complaint raises, after sorting through the circular logic, recursive reasoning, and claims attributed to incredible sources or simply “reports,” is when did South Africa start doing Iran’s bidding?
There’s been some heinous war crimes committed by IDF soldiers, maybe even a culture that causes soldiers to go too far. Those are the exception, by a lot. I have faith that, as a democracy, credible accusations will be investigated and charged within the customs of Israel’s military justice system, and most reports of atrocities have been highly exaggerated, recursive, and/or lack basic indicia of credibility.
“match up with tunnel systems” they leveled countless city blocks. They’ve bombed hospitals, they tell Palestinians to go to one part of Gaza where they say it’s “safe” and then they bomb there too. Over 20,000 people dying is not a fucking accident, it’s all intentional. They aren’t even letting them eat or have water. Forced starvation and dehydration among the whole population, oh wow yeah that really doesn’t sound like they’re trying to get rid of all of them.
I wouldn’t bother with this person. Stopped ages ago. They know all this information. Sadly when you’re stuck in tunnel vision, no facts or evidence or rationales will ever get you out.
Gaza is controlled by terrorists who launched an attack against Israel and Israel is responding to the attack. Civilians die in war, but the Israeli goal is very clearly not genocide.
It’d be nice if they’d stop bombing hospitals and depriving millions of people of the basic necessities of survival then. Oh, and it’d also be nice if they’d stop referring to Palestinians as animals and shooting children in the west bank. And It’d be nice if Netanyahu would stop saying his goal is to annex the west bank and the Gaza strip. And if the Israeli state would stop encouraging settlers to illegally (by their own laws) occupy the west bank.
The attack was also 3 months ago. And tens of thousands of Palestinians have been murdered since then.
It’s not annexation, it’s called irredentism in this circumstance. Gaza is uninhabitable from structural and civil engineering standpoints because of Hamas’s tunnels. It has no capacity or resources to make itself safe. It has also proven it has no ability or desire to actually root out Hamas. So now their neighbor is morally obligated to do it for them.
Gaza is uninhabitable because the IDF levelled every fucking building there.
Right. Someone dug tunnels under them all and then launched decades of terrorist attacks from them. October 7 was the last end of the rope.
“neighbor” is a funny way to describe an occupying force that has kept them under siege with no end in sight.
Doesn’t matter what their goal is. It matters what their actions cause.
Causing high civilian casualties is literally Hamas’s strategy, holding their families as human shields, preventing people from evacuating, etc.
Isn’t that the superceding cause of virtually every civilian death?
The superseding cause of virtually every civilian death in Gaza is an IDF bullet or bomb.
I don’t agree. If the IDF warns people before they bomb a building and people refuse to leave the building, it’s their refusal that is the superceding cause, it’s a knowing assumption of risk.
Good actual example. First or second week of the war north of Gaza City. Everyone had already been airdropped leaflets and received masses text and emergency broadcast warnings to evacuate and head south and that anyone who stayed behind was in extreme danger. A few hundred thousand people did not evacuate.
IDF stumbles across a tunnel section is wanted to bomb underneath several blocks of apartments. Israel, as a world leader in the development of strategies to avoid civilian casualties, uses the cell phone network to call people still in the buildings. They start running door to door, IDF stays on the phone and promises not to bomb until the people leading the evacuations say everyone is clear.
As they evacuate, a number of people refuse. Hamas has been spreading Facebook posts saying that the calls are a hoax. They tell the caller, “prove this is real, fire a warning shot.” Bam, warning shot goes off. They say “there’s a lot of bombing, prove it’s real and do another warning,” bam another warning shell. They are convinced and so they continue evacuating. Everyone gets out, a resident tells the IDF it’s clear, several city blocks get demolished when IDF blew up the tunnels. 3,600 people used to live there and there were zero civilian casualties. The tunnels were completed destroyed.
In my view, the superceding cause to the apartments falling down was when Hamas built a tunnel underneath them and then used them to launch a massive terrorist attack–involving thousands of rockets (fired actually indiscriminately against civilians targets and infrastructure) and mass shootings at concerts and restaurants, on families just driving down the road, and on first responders who came in response to the gunfire–and then retreated back into those same tunnels, making them legitimate military targets.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67327079
This story is the exception only because everyone agreed to leave.
If people had refused to leave or been tricked or forced to stay behind by Hamas, in my example above, the superceding cause of their deaths would have been Hamas spreading rumors, in addition to all the propaganda is has already spread about dying with honor as martyrs, which caused people not to evactuate in the first place.
I guess the October 7 attackers thought they would retreat back into the tunnels and Israel was just going to say “darn, guess they got away!”
High civilian causalities? Are you serious? Whonos the one that killed over 20,000 people? Who are the ones starving half a million people? Is it Hamas? No Its Israel. “High civilian causalities” my ass. The IDF also caused some of the causalities on October 7th too. They shot indiscriminately and hit their own people.
Yes friendly fire in the chaos of hundreds of mass shooting, active shooter events.
In my country, that sort of chaos is why we have the felony murder rule and why it’s been used in past incidents of friendly fire to properly charge the criminals with such needless deaths, if first responders accidentally shoot each other or a bystander.
You’re blaming the victims.
The IDF shoot Israelis all the time, even outside of October 7th. They just killed some Israeli hostages in Gaza.
Yes kurwa people die in warzones. It’s horrible.
Well Israel makes it a warzone.
Okay yeah sure. Thats why the Israeli Minister of Defense said “We will eliminate everything” among many other things said and done:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_in_the_2023_Israeli_attack_on_Gaza
Allegations. UN member countries that support South Africa’s complaint at the UN:
They all have such impressive credibility on human rights and totally don’t have an ax to grind against or an Iran to suck up to. /s
Because you like to pick and choose things to make your “argument” of accepting genocide, let me just quote all of the high ranking Israel officials saying God awful Nazi shit:
Netanyahu said “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible.” The Bible says “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants.”
IDF Major general Giora Eiland wrote “Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist”.[23] He added “Creating a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza is a necessary means to achieving the goal.”[23] Israeli historian Omer Bartov writes that no Israeli politician nor anyone in the IDF denounced this statement.
The spokesperson for the Israeli army said, in regards to Israel’s bombing of Gaza, “the emphasis is on damage not accuracy”. This statement was interpreted by legal scholars as intention of destruction.
Look at these Israeli Nazis creating their own little holocaust.
You may want to read this article. It clarifies the misunderstandings you are referencing in your comment. The statements to which you are referring are mistranslated and misunderstood.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/01/israel-south-africa-genocide-case-fake-quotes/677198/
This article is paywalled. And all I could read was that you can’t use statements from people with no direct role in military operations. You think none of those people have influence over their military operations? You don’t think Benjamin Netenyahu has influence to what the IDF does?
Tell me how they say those awful things, and then along with that they intentionally starve Palestinians and don’t give them water and you say that isn’t connected and that it isn’t an attempt at culling the population.
I agree. Civilian death tolls have been rapidly going down, not increasing. The airstrikes match up with the tunnels systems. There is no credibility to claims of “indiscriminate” bombings. The high number of civilian casualties is simply and readily explained by the fact that Hamas refused to let people evacuate and forced them to remain behind to be used as human shields and martyrs. High civilian casualties is one of Hamas’s weapons, and with Iran’s influence campaigns and astroturfing, it’s working to trick a lot of people whose ignorance and gullibility are going to allow Trump to win another term.
The only countries who’ve joined South Africa’s complaint to the UN criminal court are dictatorships, authoritarian , and/or theocratic shitholes such as Iran, Syria, Bahrain, Iraq, Brazil, Venezuela, Malaysia, and Cuba. The question South Africa’s complaint raises, after sorting through the circular logic, recursive reasoning, and claims attributed to incredible sources or simply “reports,” is when did South Africa start doing Iran’s bidding?
There’s been some heinous war crimes committed by IDF soldiers, maybe even a culture that causes soldiers to go too far. Those are the exception, by a lot. I have faith that, as a democracy, credible accusations will be investigated and charged within the customs of Israel’s military justice system, and most reports of atrocities have been highly exaggerated, recursive, and/or lack basic indicia of credibility.
“match up with tunnel systems” they leveled countless city blocks. They’ve bombed hospitals, they tell Palestinians to go to one part of Gaza where they say it’s “safe” and then they bomb there too. Over 20,000 people dying is not a fucking accident, it’s all intentional. They aren’t even letting them eat or have water. Forced starvation and dehydration among the whole population, oh wow yeah that really doesn’t sound like they’re trying to get rid of all of them.
I wouldn’t bother with this person. Stopped ages ago. They know all this information. Sadly when you’re stuck in tunnel vision, no facts or evidence or rationales will ever get you out.
To them everything can be explained by Hamas.
Is Hamas in the room with us right now?
Gaza is controlled by Israel