what exactly is ur take here? this is a bad thing, its fucked up that Russia targets civilians sometimes, worse things happening elsewhere doesnt mean that this is ok or that we shouldn’t care, or that we should be disrespectful of civilians dying.
this is a disturbing thing to post, as in its disturbing that ur reaction to 26 civilians being murdered in a war is to laugh at it, that is psychopath shit.
Stop spewing liberal propaganda. You’d think people here would know better by now. There is no evidence Russia deliberately targeted civilians.
We know from the past that Ukrainians deliberately park military assets near civilian infrastructure like schools, malls, etc so even if the maternity center and kindergarten aren’t lies it’s very likely they were hit incidentally after the Ukro-nazis used them as shields with the deliberate intent of making sure Russians killed civilians so they could sob about it.
The whole war is a bad thing. Fascists seizing power in 2014 is a bad thing, the break-up of the Soviet Union was a bad thing, etc.
But I’d like to point out that with Ukraine’s “fall of Berlin” level of mass conscription, Russian soldiers firing on Ukrainian soldiers is killing people who were only recently civilians and didn’t choose to be on the front lines but were kidnapped and put there with Neo-Nazi blocking units (and US supplied intelligence and overwatch) preventing them from fleeing their posts. And these are people who have for months, a year been prevented from fleeing the conflict zone by their own government desperate to keep canon fodder around by shutting the borders, thus placing them in danger. Obviously you probably wouldn’t say that’s as wrong as civilians being incidentally killed in missile strikes but both were chosen by the Ukrainians not the Russians who desperately, with all their might and vigor tried to find peace out of this even if it meant not getting all their goals repeatedly but were rejected in favor of being bled in an attempt to destroy and humiliate Russia and its people.
The blood of any dead Ukrainian civilians (including those pressed into uniform for use as canon fodder) is not the fault of Russia but of the US and the fascist puppet leadership in Kiev and I will continually point this out and scream about this mischaracterization which is in fact regurgitating western propaganda. The blood is entirely on their not Russian hands. In a strategy where the flailing puppet regime is demanded by it’s American masters to fight to the last Ukrainian it’s an unusual situation.
I feel badly for the Russian soldiers who’ve died and I feel badly for the Ukrainian conscripts (to a lesser degree given they watched fascism rise and did nothing or abetted it), but this happens in war against these types. A war Russia did not choose. A war they gave multiple off-ramps to. A defensive war against imperialist aggression and encroachment by swastika and SS symbol sporting fascists as the tip of the NATO spear aimed at Russia’s belly.
We know from the past that Hamas deliberately park military assets near civilian infrastructure like schools, malls, etc so even if the maternity center and kindergarten aren’t lies it’s very likely they were hit incidentally after the terrorists used them as shields with the deliberate intent of making sure IDF killed civilians so they could sob about it.
Sounds familiar?
this is just lazy, it’s on the same level as people replacing “bourgeoisie” in communist slogans with “black people” or whatever to imply that communists and nazis sound-alike or have the same beliefs
the ukrainian military does have a history of using civilian infrastructure for military purposes, there’s even a recent video of them using a fucking ambulance for their meat catcher conscription scheme
hamas doesn’t have a history of doing that, it’s zionist propaganda
The Zionist’s confession to shoot explosives across all of Gaza Strip actually make it obvious that they deliberately target civilians along with their confession that killing civilians are unavoidable in war. The photo evidences and testomonies by pro-Kyiv are full of ambiguity, self-contradiction, plot holes, and fantasy logic.
The city of Donetsk has a relative area size to the Gaza Strip, and has less than half the population. Israel has dropped 25,000 tonnes of explosives on the Gaza Strip, equivalent to two nuclear bombs. Shut the fuck up.
Thats a lot of words to address things i didnt fucking say. maybe i should not have said “targets” maybe i should have said “kills” instead, but lets be clear is not like Russia wouldnt if the felt they needed to, they have targeted civilian infrastructure like the powergrid before.
A powergrid is the quintessential example of dual purpose infrastructure. Without a functioning power grid a modern military’s logistics are crippled. That unfortunately makes power grids absolutely a legitimate target for destruction in a war. The fact that Russia so far has refrained from wiping out Ukraine’s power grid because they are concerned about the serious consequences it would have on the civilian population is a testament to their restraint and patience.
They could easily target and disable most of Ukraine’s power plants, they could leave most of Ukraine without power, without heating and without most forms of telecommunications, but so far all they did was they took out some high value electrical substations that were especially important for the rail sector. And may i remind you that Ukraine, like Russia, uses trains to transport most of its troops and equipment over longer distances.
More than 26 civilians are murdered every day in Gaza (actually around 300) and Biden just went around congress to give Israel more weapons.
Hence “muh white people!” It’s all about the color of the victim’s skin.
I think … maybe…
Civilians injured in Ukraine gets the US Ambassador to say, “Hey, support Ukraine!”
Civilians injured in the Palestinian territories but there are no US Ambassador’s tweeting, 'Hey support Palestine!"
which shows their hypocrisy and favouritism, but we don’t need to stoop down that low ourselves. war is horrible.
it’s not “stooping” to remark that racist favoritist hypocrites are racist and favoritist (which is what the OP is doing)
No war but class war. And this aint a class war, its just innocent people being killed on both sides.
What kind of “they go low we go high” bullshit is this? 🤣
I’m not for the killings of innocent civilians, is all. This is mostly a fight between the oligarchs involved. I’m sure most actual ukrainians are fine, as most russians.
I’m sure most actual ukrainians are fine,
Mmmmmmmm that’s highly dependent. I follow the axiom of “where one nazi sits at a table with a dozen people, if the people there stay seated, there’s now thirteen nazis in the room”. I never saw any meaningful attempt to get away from that table from large swathes of Ukranian civilians save the ones that actually deserted.
a better axiom is “could i apply the responsibility i’m expecting of civilians to children” fuck are ukrainian kids supposed to do about nazis in government? the disabled? pensioners?
and the ukrainian opposition parties that were banned & leaders jailed/disappeared—they aren’t evidence ukrainians aren’t all fash?
This is a bad thing
although the media attention and scope is quite skewed, and this is doubtless going to be used as propaganda for ukraine to kill russian civs.
But this is an attack that has killed citizens, further burning a land once united and deepening the divide between them. This war is both the final revenge of the Soviet Union, and the final nail of its coffin.
I’d point out Ukraine already kills Russian civilians. Already conducts terrorist attacks and feels fully justified in doing so because they are blood-thirsty, monstrous fascists being pushed to do something for the even stronger fascists their US masters. You have liberals in the US calling all Russians orcs, celebrating Russian tourists being killed in shark attacks. Ukraine is already fully unhinged, fully committed to terror tactics and will grow so even more so as their conventional forces fail and evaporate as the US demands punishment on Russian bodies and they don’t give a fuck if those bodies are civilians or not. The propaganda for dehumanizing Russians has already reached its zenith, it can’t go higher. They’ve staged false flag massacres, claimed all kinds of atrocities committed by Russians in areas they briefly occupied, and the western imagination does the rest.
More propaganda is not needed. If civilians were not incidentally killed, they would stage fake massacres as in ‘Bucha’ (sp?) or wherever that was. It’s in other words irrelevant to propaganda.
thats what i said
doesn’t mean im going to cheer when it hits noncombatants in ukraine. This doesn’t mean I support the Nazi supporting Ukraine state, but I cannot look at this and think its a good or right thing. A fault of their own actions, maybe.
this whole thing is a mess
Also we should be careful and not quick to accept western bourgeois propaganda press and their version of events. Let us not forget how dishonest they are and this is their dishonesty plus the plausible deniability of just repeating whatever the Kiev regime says, so if later it comes out that it isn’t true, they’re off the hook completely.
Here is RT on the incident, no less credible:
https://www.rt.com/russia/589951-ukraine-kill-civilians-un/
Ukrainian air defenses kill civilians – Moscow
*Rather than intercepting Russian missiles, Kiev’s Western-provided systems hit apartment blocks, Russia’s envoy to the UN said *
Ukrainian air defense missiles were responsible for civilian casualties during Russia’s recent bombardment of Ukrainian military sites, Russia’s permanent representative to the UN, Vassily Nebenzia, claimed on Friday. Were it not for the “Nazi regime’s” malfunctioning missiles, there would have been no civilian deaths, Nebenzia added.
Russia unleashed a wave of missile and drone strikes across Ukraine in the early hours of Friday morning. According to the Russian Defense Ministry, the “massive” barrage targeted defense industry sites, military airfields, arms depots, and troop positions, including concentrations of foreign mercenaries.
Ukraine claimed that 30 civilians were killed and 160 wounded in the attacks, and Kiev called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council in response. During the meeting, Britain’s permanent representative to the UN, Barbara Woodward, accused Russia of targeting civilians and stated that there would have been fewer casualties if Ukraine had more air defense systems.
“It is hard to imagine greater cynicism,” Nebenzia responded. “But for the work of Ukrainian air defenses, there would have been simply no civilian casualties.”
Nebenzia showed the Security Council video footage of a burning missile falling onto an apartment block in Kiev. “An impact missile does not fly at such a speed and along such a trajectory,” he explained. “Obviously, this is the consequence of the work of Ukrainian air defense.”
Another photo shared by Nebenzia showed a residential building in Lviv peppered with small craters, caused by the submunitions that air defense missiles – when working properly – expel in order to detonate incoming missiles mid-flight.
“The Nazi regime is ready to kill not only the inhabitants of Donbas with Western weapons and the same air defense missiles, but also kill its own citizens in their homes,” he declared.
Ukraine’s air defense batteries – a mix of Soviet-era and Western-provided systems – have malfunctioned in this manner on countless occasions during the conflict, most notably when a Ukrainian missile veered off course into eastern Poland last November and killed two farmers.
Ukraine responded to Friday’s barrage by firing banned cluster munitions at civilian targets in the Russian city of Belgorod on Saturday, killing at least 18 people, including two children. Russia has called an emergency meeting of the security council, and has insisted that the Czech representative attend, as Czech rockets were allegedly used to deliver the deadly munitions.
The Russian Ministry of Defense said on Saturday that the “criminal” attack on Belgorod “will not go unpunished.”
Interestingly enough I remember earlier in the conflict someone did an analysis that showed a Ukrainian apartment block they claimed Russia hit could only have been hit by Ukrainian air defenses so this would not be the first time. We must also remember the Polish provocation where two Poles in Poland died after a munition landed, Ukraine immediately blamed Russia and hopped up and down for Article 5 and Poland responding but it turned out it was one of their own anti-air missiles and it was swept under the rug there-after.
And note what Poland did after that incident - shit got too real, so instead of uncritically repeating UA and US propaganda like usual, they called highest tier meeting with president and after few hours announced that they don’t believe it was Russian attack.
Neither side intentionally targets civilians.
War is hell. But Russia, as the aggressor in this war, is the one in the wrong here.
Nah Ukraine started it back in 2014 with the coup and the subsequent oppression of Russian speaking population of the Donbass
This didn’t start in 2022
Oppressed how?
Across all sides (Civilian, Military, Ukranian and Russian), an estimated 150-200K people have died and half a million wounded since the start of the invasion in 2022.
What kind of oppression could possibly been having taken place that necessitates such an escalation?
Here’s a documentary about it that leaves out most of the blood and gore that you could easily find if you looked: Donbass (2016). You will see a bit of people being burned to death in this documentary and some other injuries but not to the extent you could find in other videos of the time.
Here’s a scene of the burning of the trade union building in 2014. Russian speakers were protesting regarding the repeal of a law which protected Russian as a minority language (or as the Ukrainian former soldier in the video states, they were “contesting a ban on the Russian language in Ukraine.”) The protestors hid in the trade union building when Ukrainian right wing nationalists showed up. Eventually, the Ukrainian nationalists set fire to the building and many of the protesters burned to death, with those who jumped out of the windows getting beaten to death by the Ukrainian nationalists. (See also: “Burnt Alive in Odessa”).
If you can stomach seeing bodies blown up in the streets, limbs removed, dead babies, and footage of people dying, there are other documentaries around which show it. It’s not hard to find footage like this from 2014 onwards. E.g., Result of a 2014 shelling by Ukrainian military (CW: Numerous dead bodies); More aftermath of a shelling (CW: Extremely graphic, numerous mutilated bodies, and footage of a person dying).
You can make up your own mind about the conflict’s particulars as you learn about it, but it’s a mistake to ignore events happening before 2022 or treat them as insignificant.
