This is my #1 also. So many people “just asking questions”
I also hate the circlejerk of people going “I cannot possibly comprehend being gay/trans/disabled/whatever but I let them do what they want!” They’re not aliens, you can listen to them explain what they are going through and have empathy. It’s not very complicated.
I think it’s a good attitude to serve as a stepping stone away from bigotry, it appeals to the bigots by offering some common ground while giving them a path to becoming less outwardly bigoted. Social progress takes time, especially with attitudes engrained as much as homophobia used to be.
Agreed, I grew up in a very conservative area and was pretty homophobic when I started college.
“They can do whatever they want, just don’t ask me to like it” was an important stepping stone towards “oh shit, love is love” and finally actually listening to the experience of gay people.
Ultimately “live and let live” is all we can ask of anyone. If that is their attitude then they aren’t a bigot. People are expecting too much of other people now - not embracing someone does not make someone a bigot.
Your starting position to me is honestly enough but unfortunately many people are way away from that. As a gay guy, I’d be happy with people just saying “do whatever you want want, just don’t ask me to like it”. The problem is too many people claim that with words but then actually act differently.
Don’t understand why you stereotyped people and basically insulted them and then wondered why people are offended? Yea? No one wants to see your fucking junk either. No, just because you’re not gay doesn’t make you any more or less likely to do what you are accusing them of.
Oh don’t get me started on the sealioning from the bigots! “But we need to have more Valuable Discussion™ about my horseshit that’s been debunked a million times already!”
Their moderation policy basically allowed any abhorrent view as long as it was expressed in a “civil” manner.
Trolls and racists could say things like “well, in my humble opinion, black people are just inherently violent and unintelligent” and anyone who got irate and called them out would get a warning and/or banned.
There is a decent argument historically that communism and other left movements are extremist, racist, and anti-lgbtq. When you start banning concepts, you open your communities up to several things.
Group think
Banning of other radical ideologies that you may agree with
You alienate those people from exposure to better concepts
You jump start compaction cycles for large scale propaganda organizations that could lead to actual violence
I provided four reasons why this was relevant and you jumped from communism to whataboutism? Talk about being intellectually lazy (Or a state-sponsored account)
There is a decent argument historically that communism and other left movements are extremist, racist, and anti-lgbtq.
We’re talking about today. On a relatively new community. Frankly, I see no reason to tolerate the bigots you’re so keen on coddling until they take over and make this another version of reddit’s the_donald, complete with organizing nazi rallies. Particularly not with the vague and spurious “there is a decent argument” hand wavy FUD that you didn’t explain as a justification. Are a lot of people saying it?
Moving onto your 4 points, let’s look at how they worked so well over at reddit, with all the virtuous acceptance of intolerance and nazi-coddling they’ve done, shall we?
Group think
No, reddit has never had groupthink. Not for an instant. Thank god they let the bigots in otherwise they’d have groupthink!
Banning of other radical ideologies that you may agree with
Post anything on conservative even slightly counter to their bigoted orthodoxy and see how that goes. Hell, suggest that fascism is not amenable to reason and must be opposed with force anywhere on reddit and see how that goes.
You alienate those people from exposure to better concepts
They had abundant exposure to better concepts on reddit. Look how well that’s worked so far. Clearly the answer is to let them spread their shit all over lemmy.
You jump start compaction cycles for large scale propaganda organizations that could lead to actual violence
the_donald literally promoted and helped organize a nazi rally where Heather Heyer was run over and killed by a nazi’s car. On lovely ol’ bigot-coddling reddit. The sub was not banned for years afterwards. I do not want that for lemmy. I left reddit the instant an alternative that didn’t welcome bigotry got enough users.
Not everywhere has to entertain bigots. There’s already too many places that do. A community that welcomes bigots is unwelcoming to everyone but bigots. But holy shit, does it ever drive engagement.
Left-leaning radical ideologies are banned all the time and usually use the same laws set up to ban far-right movements. I am not begging the question but feel free to continue spouting off the names of logical fallacies. I almost have a bingo.
I deal with propaganda and strategic messaging professionally, so by all means attempt to lecture.
Moderators who coddle bigots.
Bigots.
This is my #1 also. So many people “just asking questions”
I also hate the circlejerk of people going “I cannot possibly comprehend being gay/trans/disabled/whatever but I let them do what they want!” They’re not aliens, you can listen to them explain what they are going through and have empathy. It’s not very complicated.
I think it’s a good attitude to serve as a stepping stone away from bigotry, it appeals to the bigots by offering some common ground while giving them a path to becoming less outwardly bigoted. Social progress takes time, especially with attitudes engrained as much as homophobia used to be.
Agreed, I grew up in a very conservative area and was pretty homophobic when I started college.
“They can do whatever they want, just don’t ask me to like it” was an important stepping stone towards “oh shit, love is love” and finally actually listening to the experience of gay people.
Ultimately “live and let live” is all we can ask of anyone. If that is their attitude then they aren’t a bigot. People are expecting too much of other people now - not embracing someone does not make someone a bigot.
Your starting position to me is honestly enough but unfortunately many people are way away from that. As a gay guy, I’d be happy with people just saying “do whatever you want want, just don’t ask me to like it”. The problem is too many people claim that with words but then actually act differently.
I don’t want to see your junk and I don’t care who you’re sleeping with. I don’t understand why that’s a hard position for people to take.
Don’t understand why you stereotyped people and basically insulted them and then wondered why people are offended? Yea? No one wants to see your fucking junk either. No, just because you’re not gay doesn’t make you any more or less likely to do what you are accusing them of.
What?
Exactly what I said you bigot.
Oh don’t get me started on the sealioning from the bigots! “But we need to have more Valuable Discussion™ about my horseshit that’s been debunked a million times already!”
r/moderatepolitics was the worst for that.
Their moderation policy basically allowed any abhorrent view as long as it was expressed in a “civil” manner.
Trolls and racists could say things like “well, in my humble opinion, black people are just inherently violent and unintelligent” and anyone who got irate and called them out would get a warning and/or banned.
In my experience, the more obsessed a sub’s mods were about civil language, the more “be civil” meant “don’t sass the nazis.”
Won’t anyone think of the nazis?!
There is a decent argument historically that communism and other left movements are extremist, racist, and anti-lgbtq. When you start banning concepts, you open your communities up to several things.
I said “bigots” and you immediately jumped to “whatabout communists?!”
I provided four reasons why this was relevant and you jumped from communism to whataboutism? Talk about being intellectually lazy (Or a state-sponsored account)
After starting right out the gate with:
We’re talking about today. On a relatively new community. Frankly, I see no reason to tolerate the bigots you’re so keen on coddling until they take over and make this another version of reddit’s the_donald, complete with organizing nazi rallies. Particularly not with the vague and spurious “there is a decent argument” hand wavy FUD that you didn’t explain as a justification. Are a lot of people saying it?
Moving onto your 4 points, let’s look at how they worked so well over at reddit, with all the virtuous acceptance of intolerance and nazi-coddling they’ve done, shall we?
No, reddit has never had groupthink. Not for an instant. Thank god they let the bigots in otherwise they’d have groupthink!
Post anything on conservative even slightly counter to their bigoted orthodoxy and see how that goes. Hell, suggest that fascism is not amenable to reason and must be opposed with force anywhere on reddit and see how that goes.
They had abundant exposure to better concepts on reddit. Look how well that’s worked so far. Clearly the answer is to let them spread their shit all over lemmy.
the_donald literally promoted and helped organize a nazi rally where Heather Heyer was run over and killed by a nazi’s car. On lovely ol’ bigot-coddling reddit. The sub was not banned for years afterwards. I do not want that for lemmy. I left reddit the instant an alternative that didn’t welcome bigotry got enough users.
Not everywhere has to entertain bigots. There’s already too many places that do. A community that welcomes bigots is unwelcoming to everyone but bigots. But holy shit, does it ever drive engagement.
Oh, we’re throwing around wild accusations now?
You linked “communism” and “left movements” to “banning concepts” as if they go hand in hand.
You’re question begging hard, and all of your “reasons” are built on top of propaganda and logical fallacies.
Left-leaning radical ideologies are banned all the time and usually use the same laws set up to ban far-right movements. I am not begging the question but feel free to continue spouting off the names of logical fallacies. I almost have a bingo.
I deal with propaganda and strategic messaging professionally, so by all means attempt to lecture.