I can’t remember if I saw the argument here or on Reddit, but this is my preferred platform so it’s going here.
Summary of argument: a user should have been using water for their thermal battery, not sand, because water has better heat capacity (4.18 joules per unit of mass person unit heat - 4.18/gK). Sand’s thermal capacity is significantly lower (0.835J/gK).
Looking at these numbers alone in the post I understood why someone would say that; it also made me question why so much research is being done on sand batteries. The user who argued against sand batteries missed a crucial factor: material density. Water has a density of 1000kg per m^3. Dry sand (regular not pure quartz sand) has a density of 1730 kg per m^3. I found no satisfactry response to the argument in that thread, but that thread is now lost to me. I have also been curious about how much better regular sand is for heat batteries than water.
When designing large batteries, the goal is usually energy per volume. Let’s compare 1m^3 of each (roughly 3.3ft cube) and how much heat it can hold before the next state change (which matters a lot when managing the pressure from steam).
Total stored energy = mass (g) * thermal capacity (J/gK) * heat (kelvin).
Water: 1,000,000 * 4.18 * 373.15 = 1,559,767,000J Sand: 1,730,000 * 0.835 * 1996.15 = 2,883,538,482.5J
Over 1 billion more joules per m^3. I hope this makes it clearer why sand batteries are such an area of interest lately. It certainly did to me.
Disclaimer: I am not an expert, so there may be mistakes. All the numbers and relevant equations were found on the internet.
It is an interesting these technologies you compare. Yes, a sand battery is in potential capable of storing higher temperatures if the source can generate these temperatures. We also have to look at the heat transfer that will seperate both energy buffers if seen from an application point of view. The heat transfer in sand is very low and this intrinsic insulation of sand begins to be very interesting when larger volumes are used. Water has a problem that it needs an extra insulation layer and larger volumes would be less interesting in comparison. However water is faster in exchange and is interesting as smaller buffer with shorter bursts and intake of heat.
Alright so I have a question for you. Let’s say I’m designing one of these things for a greenhouse or something. I’m thinking underground storage tank of 500 gallons or so but basically filling it with sand and then again topping it off with water. It should minimize convection currents in the water and where it there isn’t much of a thermal draw there shouldn’t be much of an issue right?
Unfortunately that would negate the high storage temperature of sand (up to 800 degree c) as water will turn into steam after 100deg. So it is either low temperature sand or water with lower energy density.
Thermal mass would be secondary for the sand. I’m more concerned with it helping the structure of the tank underground and avoiding slump from what the tank would be buried in. Probably feeding it heat from a thermal solar set-up.
Good question, not being an expert I don’t have a great answer. But maybe doing a composite sand that combined something like copper, iron, it aluminum dust with the sand to increase the ability of the battery to more easily move heat around. Or using the chosen metal in a bar or pipe as heat transfer out of the center. The only issue with that is it lowers the operating temp and would require more active cooling, this negating some of the self-insulating benefits of sand. This could be solved by treating them like control rods, and make them movable so they could be drawn out when extracting energy is not necessary.
I like aluminium powder idea. And use the metal bar as heatpipe is a good idea. I would not see temperature as problem as most materials you mention can handle 800 deg. The idea is that you can draw energy from it thus cooling it. I think a molten salt chamber uses this combination of fast transfer and high temperature
You’re right about rapid transfer out. I guess I wasn’t clear about the imagined scenario where the battery may sit untapped for hours or more, and that could definitely cause issues with the metal melting at the upper end of operator temps. Interesting idea for solarpunk story conflict: for whatever reason heat isn’t being extracted fast enough so the batteries are overheating and ‘slagging’ themselves.