I’m considering getting a laptop for Linux and want to know a few things before I do. Some important info before I start: I don’t plan on using the laptop for anything too intense, mainly writing, digital art, streaming, browsing, and maybe very mild video editing (cropping at least and shortening at most). I would also prefer the laptop to be inexpensive, preferably under 1000 USD
I mainly want to know if whether I should get a laptop by a manufacturer that specializes in Linux or a laptop that runs a different OS (exp: Windows) to install Linux on later. I’ve also scouted out quite a few distros and have a good idea of which ones I would like using
I’ve already looked at a few mainline Linux hardware producers like System76 but want to know if it’s worth it before sinking money into it
Check out Framework if you haven’t already! https://frame.work/linux
They’re designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they’re super modular. You can also save some money if you’re not afraid to put it together yourself.
How’s the Camera working on these? On most recent laptops it seems not to be just a camera sensor like in the good ol’ days, but a full blown i2c module, which does a lot of processing before delivering the images, and with rather obscure code that people is really struggling to build drivers for.
Works fine on Linux for me, you sure you mean i2c? I think you mean v4l2 or something, i2c max bitrate is like 500kbit/s. I can check but I’m pretty sure it’s usb or something similar, it works on Google hangouts on Chrome at least, I use my fw for work.
While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.
Edit: Thousand, not hundred
True. But framework is an investment in a sustainable future since the mobo is upgradeable.
You can get a diy base framework 13 with either intel or amd for $849 w/o ram and the ssd, and just purchase those part separately for just about $1000 total.
And if you’re replacing one, you could possibly pull the ram and SSD from it to use in the frame work.
The SSD will need to be an M.2 form factor, and the ram will need to be SODIMM DDR5; both of which are relatively new form factors in the grand scheme of things. The ssd from a former laptop will probably fit, but SODIMM DDR5 is maybe two years old at this point. The older intel models that still use DDR4 are out of stock at this point on the framework website.
Mine in in the mail. Got the shipping notification last night. So excited! I didn’t the past year saving up for it. I’m glad to see that everything works out of the box with Fedora.
While the laptops being so modular is really useful, the list of supported OS seem a bit narrow, although that doesn’t mean I’m not considering. Thank you!
Those are the officially supported distros. You can install other ones just fine. I doubt you’d find another laptop that had even just more than 1 officially supported distro.
Yeah, but I’d still like the peace of mind from knowing for sure other distros work, y’know?
What distro are you considering? I know e.g. Arch has a wiki page dedicated to the FrameWork and basically everything works.
Sure, fair enough. There are other distros supported by the community if you want to check that out too.
You honestly won’t find better than the support for framework in the laptop space. The arch wiki entry for it is fantastic, and having multiple supported distros is almost unique.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Framework_Laptop_13 The Arch wiki is the GOAT
Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I’m sure you’ll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.
BUT, oh boy. Don’t get me started…
Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they’re just fucking with us.
I’ve got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you’re ~ key is down there? It’s fucking stupid.
Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.
AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.
Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.
So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.
Hear me out. Go to the BIOS. Swap Left Ctrl and FN! Thanks me later :)
Thank you! It’s a bloody miracle!
Hahaha, I’m the opposite I’ve been so used to the thinkpad fn that I hate using other laptop keyboards.
Oh :( As annoying as that is I can’t bring myself to completely take it off the board. Thanks for the warning, though! Nobody’s mentioned that so far :)
It’s not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.
What I don’t like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).
What issues are you having with BT? I recently bought a second hand T490 and Fedora with KDE has been great! I have not extensively used BT, but I always use a BT keyboard and it has been fine :)
Microphone on my headphones is not working, it is connecting but codec is off. It us not working with second parmir different manufacturer.
I got bt usb dongle and both work with it.
I don’t know if the problem is in kernel driver or bt deamon…
The Fn and Carl keys can be switched in software. I have a work-issued Lenovo with a similar layout. They can be soft-swapped in the BIOS. There’s also a desktop utility to do the same but I don’t know if they have a Linux version of it. I totally agree, the physical layout is annoying but it has a simple fix.
I’ve had to borrow computers with fn and ctrl swapped. I understand shat you mean
Funny, I seriously considered getting one over the past year, but the past couple of months I’ve been reading all kinds of complaints about them. Seems there is a problem with consistent quality.
I have X1 Carbon Gen 6 and I love the laptop overall, I’ve been using it for 4 years so far. I don’t mind having fn and ctrl swapped, but my keyboard has also a stupid placement of PrntScr. It’s on the bottom row, right to the space bar. I can’t count times when I accidentally opened spectacle 50 times, because I hold the wrong key.
I have also happened to have a try with some newer thinkpads and they felt like the company made them worse on purpose. The material felt cheap, keyboard choppy and the trackpad absolutely abysmal with its lack of precision.
With the hardware support under Linux… yeah, they do work, but when you pick a new model, expect some missing features, worse power management, quicker thermal throttling etc. For me it significantly improved over time. With 10yo refurbished thinkpads Linux is great though, they say
Used Thinkpad from eBay is your best bet to start imo.
No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.
Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.
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This, got me through my entire cybersecurity & digital forensics undergrad
Yeah I’m considering getting one simply bc of the affordability. They also seem to be pretty highly regarded (if the amount of recommendations I’ve gotten says anything)
You could get the education edition. I have a new yoga 11e and it has a great keyboard, and it’s just… way too good for the money (250 bucks). I love that if I break or lose it I can just get an idenical one for super cheap in a couple days. But they’re made for kids so they’re pretty durable anyway.
I bought a DIY Edition Framework Laptop 13 with an i5 1240p for about $1050 after buying my RAM and SSD on their own. This is the best option if you’re into modularity and upgradability and second only to buying used when it comes to environmental friendliness (in my opinion). Battery life isn’t anything to write home about at least on 12th Intel though, supposedly 13th gen Intel CPUs do better
Otherwise, System76, Tuxedo Computers, and Laptop with Linux are probably good options if you want Linux pre-installed. All 3 of those take Clevo laptops and make them their own.
Starlabs also looks like an interesting option, but I believe the Starlite is the only option under $1000 USD. As far as I know, they’re the only company that makes their own laptop chases from scratch for Linux.
Links:
Framework has quite a nice selection and the modularity is an amazing feature! Although having Linux preinstalled is a pretty big draw, and Sysytem76 has some VERY nice looking machines. Thank you!
You got all the good infos already, but I’ll stress:
- Get Linux preinstalled from a reputable vendor. Linux works on most devices really; but when buying new, you don’t want the hassle to even think about drivers.
- If you cannot buy from a Linux-friendly vendor, buy an older model that’s VERY popular with Linux users (like the stereotypical thinkpad). Again, most devices will work, but you don’t want the hassle.
- Intel everything just works out-of-the-box with Open Source drivers and is good enough for work. I’m not aware of the current state of AMD, nvidia drivers.
- Choose a popular generic purpose distro. They are all good (enough) and should work out of the box. Popular for end users are Ubuntu (although hated by a vocal group) and related ones such Debian or PopOS; maybe Mint. I’d put Fedora/RedHat and Suse on the same level (but I wouldn’t know since I settled on Debian/Ubuntu long ago). Then, Arch adresses a different clientele who wants to tinker with there system; not my choice if you want a computer that just works, but great community. Anything else probably has too small of a user group unless it’s popular with your friends or line of work
- Treat it like a Mac. It’s different.
I have been purposefully avoiding Intel for the last six years. AMD CPUs are great if you are not stressed on ultra low power consumption. More threads, less money. AMD GPU drivers are open source and well integrated into the kernel, unlike NVidia’s proprietary driver, which I will never go back to.
Great that AMD has open source drivers, didn’t know that.
I’m a fan of Framework laptops. They have given people the option to upgrade several motherboards by Intel and released an AMD version to boot. I don’t think there’s ever been a manufacturer that offered three generations of motherboards on the same chassis. The swappable ports are kind of neat, you can choose which ones you want to use
The 13" is already on sale with a 16" coming later this year
I’ve heard really highly of framework so far! They seem to be a great company, thanks :)
Just bought a second hand Lenovo p50, before framework’s most receng laptop, like the idea of a framework laptop but for now this thing is plenty powerful so can’t really justify upgrading for some years yet
If you can you should try to savve up for a framework laptop
I’m on my second Dell XPS 13 Developer laptop which comes with Ubuntu pre installed. I loved the first one but played too much Minecraft and wore out a couple of keys. I had it long enough that decent replacement keyboards were hard to find so I got a new laptop from the same line. I love the second one even more. My brother, also a Linux-using software professional, made the initial recommendation, so there is at least one other person who liked this line.
Love my XPS 13, runs fedora with no issues. Such a solid laptop. Also love my 4K screen
Ooo, nice! Although I don’t really want to use Ubuntu myself (nothing wrong with the distro itself, I’ve just tried others I like), the knowledge it’s Linux compatible is amazing!
I have two generations of XPS 15 running Linux without issue. You may need to disable secure boot depending on what distro you install, but beyond that everything works great 👍
I had an XPS 13 non developer for about 5 years. Ran any distro I threw at it. Upgraded to a frameworks last year though and not looking back. It’s all about that 3:2 display for me. The main thing I miss on the XPS is that it sipped power while suspended. I could leave it with the lid closed for a week unplugged and it would still be at 50% The framework 12th Gen is not so forgiving. If it sits in my bag all weekend it will be dead come Monday.
If your on a budget, an older Thinkpad is a good choice. I picked up a X220 with a charger and spare battery off of Craiglist a year ago for $60.
Ended up going with Coreboot with a SeaBIOS payload and Debian OS.
The x220 is quite easily the best laptop ever made imo, and I’ll never understand why they just don’t slap modern hardware into it and re-release it.
I have enough money to buy a more modern Lenovo laptop, but I’m definitely considering getting one renewed simply because of how cheap it is. I’d prefer newer age specs tho. Thank you!
I also had one and not because of any money restriction. It’s just an amazing machine with a few tweaks and the CPU limitation are actually a plus since it will push you towards cli/tui and that’s where the fun begins
Ooo, nice! I’ve been meaning to learn more about cli/tui stuff, anyway. Thanks!
If you’re thinking of getting one, i personally would recommend getting one from https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/. Extremely good quality and a really clean distro with Tuxedo OS 2 although you are able to install on it whatever you want.
Thanks! They look good but are a little expensive :( they’re definitely a vendor I’ll look into in the future, though!
Maybe a slightly controversial stance, but consider straight Debian. With flatpak support in both Plasma and Gnome being stellar, you can have up-to-date apps with a rock solid base that runs on almost anything.
If you’re looking for a cheap but solid laptop, you can get some pretty good deals on Dell Refurbished. Click on Laptops at the top, then look for the 50% off codes at the top of the page.
This is what I did… I currently use a refurbished Latitude 7420 with Pop!_OS as my daily driver (personal and work). Many of the Latitude, Precision, and XPS machines are actually Ubuntu certified, so you can have a high level of confidence of Linux working on them.
I’ve been using Linux on Latitudes for about 18 years and have had very little issues in terms of hardware support (although, tbf, I mainly stick to all Intel models as someone mentioned above). Highly recommended.
Ooo, thanks! The site seems to have some really good deals :)
If you’re getting a Dell (or other laptops, but I know it’s fairly common in Dell laptops) try to avoid anything with AMD SmartShift. This feature is designed only for Windows and will cause problems with Linux.
I’ve been told of a pretty simple fix, so it’s not the end of the world, but if you can avoid it I would.
Ooo, nice! And I’ll keep the AMD SmartShift in mind
Great. I should add that the solution I mentioned was done on Mint, but it’s a kernel parameter so I’d imagine it’s not too distro-specific (I’m very new to Linux though so I may be wrong).
Here is the forum thread if you want to look for yourself. The actual solution should be the third-to-last reply.
The user added in the last comment that this problem may actually be fixed on a lot of SmartShift laptops, so it may not come up at all if you do get one.
System 76 customer here. I just replaced my 2011 system 76 lemur with a new lemur. I have Ubuntu installed on both and have never tried pop os. I was very happy with that laptop and the company in general. It actually still runs okay. I did replace the battery after about 5 or 6 years. I’m thinking of trying out nixos on it.
My guilty reason for upgrading was I wanted to play dwarf fortress at more than 5 fps…
I’m curious why you’ve never tried pop? I thought i’d hate the tiling and all that, but it and the gestures are so intuitive… i’ve used all sorts of desktop environments on linux over the last 20 some years, and pop is by far the most usabunity with the least learning curve.
Well, Pop was released way after I bought the first laptop. I guess I haven’t had any reason to try it out, as I’m happy with my i3/sway setup. I don’t really hop distros at all. Maybe when system76 completes/releases their full cosmic desktop (not based on gnome) I’ll give it a spin.
Thinkpad T480s if you wanna save money for another something but get a good screen version. To take it to 1000USD on refurb /2nd hand Thinkpad Carbon.
Youre in a Linux thread, these run Linux like a dream.
I’ve heard they run Linux well before, but I certainly didn’t expect them to be so popular, lol. Plus they’re cheap, which make them seem like a very nice choice. Thanks for the model specific recs, too!
@PurrJPro You can’t go wrong with @tuxedocomputers but it’s gonna be hard to stay under 1000USD. Everything they have runs beautifully with linux and their support is far better than you’ll find anywhere else. I’ve bought more laptops over the past 20 years than anyone probably should, and finally going with #TUXEDOComputers was worth the little extra I spent on it.
If you want to just buy some cheap laptop off the shelf, that’s okay too, just do your homework first. Find out what hardware that exact part/model number has in it so you can know what sort of problems you may be dealing with later. I’ve bought at least 2 different models each of Sony, DELL, Acer, ASUS, HP, IBM, Lenovo, Apple, Compaq, 5~6 different off-brands I can’t remember. Some work great with no hassle at all, some take loads of fiddling, and some have hardware that just doesn’t work at all.
Tuxedo’s laptops r enticing from their sleek look alone, and their Linux support is enticing. If I’m ever in a spot to buy from them, I definitely will! As for cheap laptops, I’m heavily leaning towards a ThinkPad, although I’ll probably look at what other vendors offer Linux compatibility and how good it is. Thank you!
