i can’t even guess as to why they went quiet. not one guess at all. we will never know.

edit: well they’re not quiet now once they get called out

  • doomcanoe@sh.itjust.works
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    1 month ago

    Real Talk, I’m getting real tired of everyone from the vaguely right of center to the farthest reaches of the left getting involved in this shit slinging blame game.

    I legit don’t care anymore who you voted for (edit: so long as it wasn’t Trump I mean. But even then, time to start your redemption arc if you did). We are past the election and now all share the same immediate issues.

    Folks who abstained from voting (or voted 3rd party) because you couldn’t stomach the lesser of two evils, good news, that choice is gone. You can stop parroting the idea that anyone who voted Blue did so “in support of genocide”. It should be clear by now those who voted Blue really were just doing their best in a bad situation, they are not your enemies.

    Folks who voted Blue because you believe supporting the lesser evil is in service of the greater good. Good news, that burden is also gone. You can stop parroting the idea that someone who can’t stomach voting for people who would play politics with genocide is really just a tankie or a bot. Not every one is willing to play game theory with people’s lives, that doesn’t mean they are your enemies.

    Anyone who truly wants to push for solidarity and human rights for all is an ally of mine. And I propose we bury the hatchet, preferably in the objectives of fascists, before its too late.

    • Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1 month ago

      I’d rather keep up the blame game, ngl. Arguments didn’t work on the disingenuous pricks who helped get us here. I don’t care if they personally made a difference or not, I care that they were utterly unreasonable, and the change in circumstances won’t change that.

      Speaking to anyone who could’ve voted for Kamala but didn’t: I don’t care about solidarity anymore; you didn’t have solidarity with us when we needed you. Y’all are fucking stupid and I don’t want to deal with that. I realize that’s not the moral choice, but RN for the first time in over a decade I don’t care about that. I’m angry. Maybe in a few more days or weeks or months that will change, maybe not. Right now I’m focusing on making sure all my remaining friends are able to get somewhere safe if the need arises and keep hope kindled in their hearts. Maybe that means other people who need my help more will suffer, die, or fall victim to their own despair, but I just don’t have the wherewithal to make that my priority.

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        1 month ago

        I don’t care about solidarity anymore

        Never did. Solidarity means you aren’t willing to sacrifice marginalized groups to get ahead or save your own skin. If you accept sacrificing Palestinians, you’d accept sacrificing any other group by the exact same “lesser-evilist” logic. What value does that kind of “solidarity” have?

        • doomcanoe@sh.itjust.works
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          1 month ago

          To be fair, for many the choice to save or sacrifice Palestine never felt like it was on the table. For those people, the choice was between making a deal with the devil to save as many marginalized groups as possible, or sacrificing said marginalized groups to keep their “hands clean”.

          I believe both sides of this argument felt like they were pushing for solidarity the best way they knew how. And due to the emotionally charged nature of this choice, we wound up losing all solidarity ironically.

          If you truly believe in solidarity, then try to see the human on the other side of the screen and be the first to reach out and mend the cracks.

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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            1 month ago

            Here’s the thing. I’m trans. On our own, we represent a tiny sliver of the voting public, not worth considering from a strategic standpoint. But there are plenty of other groups of people in the same boat. Together, we are worth considering - but only together. “What force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?” If we try to build a coalition in which we abandon any group that the democratic politicians deem too much of a liability to be worth protecting, that is no coalition at all, and I well understand that after Palestinians, I will be next. The very same logic that these people were willing to deploy against them can and will be deployed to justify abandoning me and mine.

            What advantage do I gain from joining together in a “coalition” in “solidarity” with these fair-weather friends who will drop us at the first sign of trouble? Honestly, they are more of a liability than an asset, because if I’m buddying up with them, it damages my credibility among potentially more reliable people who have good reason not to trust them. I would rather do it the right way and build trust even if it means building from the ground up.

            I appreciate what you’re trying to do, but these disagreements are meaningful and important. This election may be over, but the question remains of what the appropriate strategy is going forward, whether to build a coalition that will treat an offense against one as an offense against all, and ensure that anyone who comes for any part of it is unelectable, or whether to “vote blue no matter who” as we are picked off one-by-one, in exchange for temporary, short term security for some.

            • doomcanoe@sh.itjust.works
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              1 month ago

              I get your points and they are well taken. Just be careful not to swing at ghosts so hard that you hit those who would have made great allies.

              Not every one who voted Blue is a “fair-weather friend”. Frankly, I bet you would be surprised with how many would be willing to push for something better if given the opportunity.

              And sometimes, people just need to be given the chance. The disagreements are meaningful, but the shit slinging is not. And I’m afraid we have traded in meaningful discussion for pure shit slinging.

              • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 month ago

                Every ‘Vote Blue No Matter Who’ absolutely are fair weather friends. it means you don’t actually understand what you’re voting for and have no principles for which you’d hold the line. If you wouldn’t hold the line for a group experiencing a genocide you are not worth putting our group on the line for.

                You can absolutely continue to try papering over what the DNC and dems like the OP just did to the palestinians but there isnt an argument on this blue earth that will result in my forgiving of it. The only option for those individuals is repentance.

    • Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I think it is important to point out the failings of others. Otherwise they may not connect the dots and learn from their mistakes.

      Sometimes a mistake is innocent, say you forgot to zip up your fly. It’s important to know you forgot to do so as it could be very socially embarrassing.

      Sometimes one could accidentally cut someone off in traffic because they didn’t see them. A good honk notifies them of their mistake and will hopefully drive home the fact that they probably need to pay better attention to traffic.

      Pointing out that abstaining and or choosing not to vote enabled the election of the greater of two evils is equally important.

      Rock on OP. Never let them forget!

      • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        Then point at the FAILED DEMOCRAT PARTY instead of voters. When biden announced he was running for re-election their own internal polling showed he’d lose. They don’t fucking care, it’s all theatre to them. Their corporate owners are happy and the donations continue to flow in from foolish rubes like you who will gladly vote blue no matter who right off a fucking cliff.

        Kamala Harris spent a billion dollars and still fucking lost. But yeah go blame voters that will ensure the same thing happens in 2028 should we be so lucky to pretend to play democracy again. And it is pretend. Because if you don’t vote correctly you’re the worst person to ever exist.

        • Katana314@lemmy.world
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          1 month ago

          I’ve been repeating this thought exercise because people seem to have a hard time delineating when blame goes the other way.

          Bob is standing next to a bomb, and a fuse is sparking down. Jill, on the other side of a fence and reliant on Bob, lifts a huge very expensive sign for Bob to stamp out the fuse. Bob does not stamp out the fuse, bomb goes off.

          Who is at fault; Bob for not stamping out the fuse, or Jill for not getting a high-amp bullhorn to inform Bob he should stamp the fuse?

          Feel free to vary the analogy, but the question would extend to: When does it become Bob’s fault that he didn’t take action?

          • inv3r510n@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            It remains the democrats fault for:

            • gaslighting the public about inflation

            • gaslighting the public about not one but two new wars including a genocide!

            • refusing to run a small D democratic primary that they didn’t rig since checks notes 2004 (they tried to rig 2008 for Hillary but failed because Obama was so charismatic they couldn’t stop him)

            • refusing to run a primary at all in 2024, despite biden promising when elected in 2020 to be a one term president, and his own polling showed he’d lose in 2024

            • last minute Hail Mary of replacing biden with Harris despite not a single vote being cast for her

            • no platform other than “we’re not trump! Elect an anti-democratic party to save democracy! Trumps the next hitler!!!”

            • didn’t bother campaigning in swing states just like Hillary in 2016

            Gee I wonder why they lost the election. Couldn’t be that they continuously gaslight the public. Couldn’t be that they didn’t hold a primary (sorry but RFK Jr vanity run is not a primary). No, no. Voters just voted wrong!

            But don’t worry! We have to save dEmOcRaCy! Let’s just roll over and hand the power over to trump because he won fair and square and optics and politeness are more important than saving the country! You see, the democrat party doesn’t actually give a shit, if they were serious, they would have their own January 6th. They’re not serious. They’re gonna fundraise off of it. Just like roe v Wade!

            • Katana314@lemmy.world
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              1 month ago

              no platform other than “we’re not trump! Elect an anti-democratic party to save democracy! Trumps the next hitler!!!

              Yeah? Why do you need a platform beyond this?

              It was a competent former prosecutor vs a serially lying violent felon.