What a shit article, it literally skips the most important part and makes it seem like it was self-defense when it was planned. What happened is grossly misrepresented.
This is from https://somethingsbrewingcafe.ca/linkpost/460154/ :
According to police, Kizer traveled armed from Milwaukee to Volar’s home in Kenosha in June 2018. She shot him twice in the head, set fire to his house and took his car.
He deserved it and it’s sketchy as hell they let him go when they busted him with home made kiddie porn. Regardless, it’s illegal to take matters into your own hands.
it’s sketchy as hell they let him go when they busted him with home made kiddie porn.
The fuck!?!
Ummm yea this girl deserves a pay day for doing their job for them not punishment.
She can deserve both compensation for suffering and punishment for taking her own action. This is premeditated and she didn’t need to be there, but his actions clearly contributed negatively to her mental state.
Her morally good action was premeditated? Unthinkable!
If you want a society where premeditated extralegal violence is “good”, you can always go to Pakistan. That’s exactly what people who perform “honor killings” believe.
The developed world got rid of that when duels went out of fashion. The problem with killing someone to solve a problem is that it creates more problems. The person who died has friends, family, children, etc. who will not think your actions are justified. They will come for you and your family.
Obviously you don’t have good morals. Vigilantism is immoral…
Vigilantism is immoral
This is a category error. You wouldn’t say that “kicking is immoral,” or that “driving is immoral.” It just depends what you’re kicking and where you’re driving.
“Vigilantism” is the extrajudicial pursuit of justice. It involves breaking the laws in some random corner of the world. However, none of that has any bearing on morality. The holocaust was legal. Slavery was legal. What the Supreme Court is doing now is legal. That has no bearing on whether it’s moral.
“Vigilantism” means breaking the law;
That is an insufficient definition of vigilantism.
Why is vigilantism immoral but court systems, including corrupt ones, are not? Aren’t both simply a way to decide justice? What makes vigilantism inherently immoral compared to other justice systems?
I mean, it would be nice if all these f****** were actually scared of their victims.
I can’t say that just allowing vigilante outright is the right answer, but we could certainly afford to let her go like they let him go. Would be a nice use of a presidential pardon if it applies.
It’s illegal to take matters into your own hands.
The article is about justice, not “legality.” The question is about the size of the gap (or in this case the gaping chasm) between what is legal in our society and what is moral.
Any rational agent in this woman’s circumstances should do what she did. I understand that doing the right thing is often illegal, which makes some people uncomfortable, but you know maybe that’s why the gap between justice and legality is so vast. That’s why our Supreme Court is a joke.
Any rational agent in this woman’s circumstances should do what she did.
I think that’s really the crux of the issue. She didn’t report him to the police but an other girl did and there was an ongoing investigation which she probably would of cemented if she came forward. Instead she resorted to what essentially is revenge killing and went out of her way to do it
I understand situation when taking things into your own hands is acceptable, like in self defense or when the law has really failed you and there isn’t any other option, but I don’t think this was one of those situations.
There is nothing moral about an ordinary citizen handing out a death sentence, without even trying to get help. Society has systems in place to dispense justice and I don’t even think a death sentence is moral in those cases. Not to mention this man was most likely going to prison, had a mountain of evidence against him and had been charged 12 days prior to the shooting.
when the law has really failed you
This is the actual crux of the issue. Justice doesn’t recognize national borders, governing bodies, or laws. The very fact that we — as thinking, feeling creatures capable of suffering — allow a bureaucracy to monopolize violence and distribute justice on our behalf is a tenuous miracle (and a biiiig illusion).
We are entitled to justice. It’s an innate aspect of our rational nature (what Immanuel Kant called membership in the kingdom of ends). We permit a “justice system” to act on our behalf for the sake of practical efficiency, but that’s a tenuous contract, and when it fails to hold up its end of the bargain…
That’s the thing though, I dont’t think it had failed her. Not only was it in the process of dispensing justice, but it wasn’t even doing it at her request since it seems she never reported him. The justice system isn’t failing when it’s being ignored by the victim.
We are entitled to justice but that doesn’t entail killing folks on a whim when it feels justified. We have systems in place and we need to at least give them a chance before taking matters into our own hands.
I understand your point that not all forms of vigilantism are bad. For instance, I applaud the ordinary citizens that were fighting against the cartels in mexico a while back. I just think in this case it wasn’t justified.
We are entitled to justice but that doesn’t entail killing folks on a whim
I appreciate the conversation. I doubt we disagree on the fundamentals. However, I have to push back against this characterization. There was nothing whimsical about her decision or this guy’s culpability.
It’s also important not to conflate our ability to know something definitively (our epistemic confidence) with the truth.
If what she claims about this guy is true, then she is morally justified. If it’s not true, then she isn’t. Our uncertainty about the matter is a separate issue and regrettably not the subject of this litigation.
Any rational agent in this woman’s circumstances should do what she did.i
She set fire to his house after killing him, putting neighbors and firefighter’s lives at risk.
Ok, except that. Don’t burn down the neighborhood.
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When the law and authorities fail to give you Justice, you go ahead and get it yourself. Just don’t get caught.
People don’t get let go with child porn. That’s a hard claim to swallow.
…what?
People are let go when they fully rape children, let alone for child porn, what are you even talking about?
Is he a cop? We all know cops are not held to the same standards as normal people.
You know what don’t bother replying, I see by your profile you have issues and I’m no longer interested I anything you have to say.
Ahh clearly not premeditated. Lady clearly forgot she needs to put on a bodycam to film it all and some shiny shitstained badge to avoid all this nonsense… she’d probably even get a job in the next county* over or a medal if she followed these simple steps.
*Edit cuz stupid autocorrect doesn’t seem to think counties exist anymore
I agree. If she would have a badge and uniform they would have simply suspended her with pay. She would take a few weeks vacation and carry on with her life like nothing.
I’m being serious…
The premeditation is unfortunately what got her. Now, if she accidentally bumped into him while driving a car, however…
She did the right thing with forethought and premeditation? How dare she!
Thank you for your comment. It realy helped me decide on the clickbaiteness of the posted link.
As usual, when the title asks a question, the answer is no.
I think ultimately the sentencing is fine, the problem is that the criminal system failed at every step of the way… until it was time to punish her. He shouldn’t have been let go in the first place. Since the justice system is known to handle harsher sentences to people of color, it’s easy to be even more displeased with this result.
Since she’s going to prison, where her mental health will not be treated appropriately for the horrible things done to her by the person she murdered, I disagree, the sentencing is not fine.
I do agree that the “justice system” failed at every other step along the way. I just think it failed here too. She should be sentenced and appropriately confined, but not in prison.
I think because they failed her, her actions are justified.
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What she did was illegal, but they could have chosen to completely ignore it the same way they ignored her abuser’s many crimes. The fact that they didn’t shows which side they’re on.
The courts take a very dim view of people taking the law into their own hands. That’s what she did. We can all understand why she did it. But we really don’t want people going around shooting each other for revenge. It creates a spiral of violence that leads to societal breakdown. It’s the whole reason a justice system exists in the first place, going all the way back to the time when the king was the judge.
Vigilante justice is not acceptable, let alone a vigilante killing
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New York Times - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
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https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/22/opinion/chrystul-kizer-prison-sentence.html
It is justice. Look at the facts on the case.
How does that boot taste?
Wow, bootlicker, term of '24?
Normally Im all ACAB fuck the system. But the evidence in the case and facts make this ruling just even if it seems unfair.
Her abuser was a piece of shit, no denying that. And while the world is probably a better place with him dead, the means by which it was accomplished was illegal.
If the court had done anything but find her guilty, it just sends a signal to any would be vigilantes that if justice system didn’t give you an outcome you wanted quickly as you wanted, then it’s okay to take justice into your own hands.
While I do hope she gets a pardon and those who didn’t take her pleas seriously when she tried to report him become subject to thorough investigation and permanently removed from the criminal justice system, we absolutely can not go back to frontier justice of people killing each other because the local sheriff and deputies didn’t want to or know how to deal with it.
We have similar cases where people were found not guilty.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francine_Hughes
Why was it okay then in that case but now for this black girl’s case, it will suddenly erode society if -checks notes- pedophiles die
