It’s really crazy that the “somebody other than Trump” campaign approach has endured for ~4 years.
I don’t have the words to describe how far the credibility of the United States has fallen in my lifetime.
I remember when Dan Quayle misspelled potato, and poof, his career was over. Now you have a criminal reality TV star running for reelection.
You don’t even have to go that far back. Howard Dean’s enthusiastic-but-awkward yell was such a non-issue, and it still ruined his whole campaign.
And it wasn’t even that awkward! At least it wasn’t if you were there in the room, among the roaring crowd. But they took the isolated audio from a single microphone. And poof. That was the end of his campaign.
I think that Dean could have recovered from it, if he just owned it. Hell, if he decided from that point to make it his own and use it to interrupt rude Republicans, that would have won him a lot of people.
It was even more of a non issue than you think. The clip that went around had the audience noise removed to make it seem more awkward than it was.
I remember when they tore Jimmy Carter apart for this: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/jimmy_carter_130252
That creeps me out because of how religious and brainwashed it sounds. If I know nothing else about Carter, I would not vote for him based on that quote.
It would make me more likely, even though I’m an atheist. He was being honest with himself and honest to the public.
It’s far better than some politician exclaiming how faithful and religious they are, then getting caught blowing the poolboy in a rented car.
Honest with himself sure, but that doesn’t change that what he was being honest about was that he is brainwashed by the church.
BEYAHHH!
You also didn’t have people win the presidency, get voted out of office, then try to run again. Usually people get the message after getting voted out after just one term.
Trump’s feral genius locked onto the Big Lie, which effectively avoided the party reckoning and ejection that comes with losing the presidency.
Guy has three straight election-cycle losses, but the base is convinced he’s the usurped rightful king rampant, and 43% of the registered electorate is eager to return him to the throne.
An aside: the Constitution is a dogshit template for a political system if it can be hacked this easily by a buffoon.
There is also that thing I’ve recently been hearing about where Republicans in various states are just refusing to do their jobs at all.
Completely paralyzing government.
You shouldn’t be able to do that.
Quayle was never supposed to go beyond VPOTUS. He was picked because of how much in the background he really was.
Biden has remained because he’s actually one of the best people at handling Congress in recent history. What Im afraid of is how few people there are in the pipeline.
It’s really crazy that people thing he’s only popular because of the “other than Trump” phenomenon. The guy has done a lot of good, the Dems aren’t planning to kill me if I have an abortion, end my friends marriage or call the local drag queens who entertain me on a Friday night pedophiles, there are a lot of reasons to vote for the Dems aside from then not being Not Trump. ie they aren’t trying to take anyone’s fucking rights away to start with.
I’m not excited to vote for a corporate Dem again, but if that’s what it takes to keep a twice impeached fascist out of the White House, we’ll then, sign me the fuck up.
I’m not excited to vote for a corporate Dem again, but if that’s what it takes to keep a twice impeached fascist out of the White House, we’ll then, sign me the fuck up.
This is Biden’s entire re-election strategy in a nutshell. I’m gonna hold my nose and vote for him too for the exact same reason, but I’m tired of having preselected candidates rolled out in front of me and being forced to vote for the less shitty person.
I’m sorry to tell you but that is the entire history of the US presidential election system. Before the mid-1800s some states didn’t even let the public vote, the legislature of the state selected their electoral representatives who picked the president.
“Voting isn’t marriage, it’s public transport. You’re not waiting for “the one” who’s absolutely perfect: you’re getting the bus, and if there isn’t one to your destination, you don’t not travel- you take the one going closest.”
And Biden is 80 years old. Trump is 77. I believe we should have upper age limits on presidents the same way there is a lower age limit. The country doesn’t need more old corrupt white men running it.
Many years ago I was invite to sit on a board of a charity I was involved with. Everyone else was about that age. Congress made a lot more sense to me after that experience.
That problem is more easily solved by congressional term limits, which I also believe should be a thing. Too many people in congress spend their time staying in congress and collecting bribes than being the public servants the position is supposed to be
Congressional term limits would dramatically increase risk of corruption in elected officials
Any reason why you believe that? Just more turnover and knowledge sharing?
And this is precisely why we need to vote in candidates at lower level elections that support making modifications to how we vote.
Bring in Star Voting, Approval Voting, Ranked Choice Voting, etc… Pretty much anything but the current system. The Forward Party is primarily focused on this goal of overhauling our current voting system to help fix this problem of being force to vote for candidates that we don’t really want.
Politics in those so-called democratic countries with mathematically rigged representative-allocation systems that create power duopolies, looks a lot like a play in many sports (the soccer version is called the “one-two”) were two players pass the ball back and forth to cross the opposing team’s defense: bad defenders will try to go after the ball, good defenders see it as the play for the other team to score that it is.
Sure, it’s years between ball-passing but it’s still the same principle of passing the ball back and forth whilst maintaining the same direction of travel and aiming to score for the same side.
Looking at it like that, it’s no surprise that all during those years of voters “choosing the lesser evil” the overall level of evil in politics has slowly kept going up.
I still laugh at all the left voters who were convinced to throw their vote away the first time but now have to live with a Republican led supreme court for the next 40 years. Hopefully we don’t see a repeat of people disengaging from the election process again
laugh? or cry?
but yes, i feel a ton of resentment and lay the blame on the bunch of fucktards that couldn’t get off their couch when they could have done something.
Meh, this is too harsh. No point in laughing at them when we’re locked up right next to them. I’m just glad very many have seen the mistake they made. I’ll welcome a repentant 2016 green voter with open arms. The ones who still see nothing wrong with the third party votes in 16 and have no regrets can go find a rusty cactus to fuck themselves with though.
Whatever his strategy needs to be to rope in the crazies, I’m just glad my first choice back in the primaries won the Presidency.
Some of us are really happy Biden is in the white house. Only thing I dislike about Biden is that he’s too protectionist for me, but that’s still a 95/100 or so
What specifically do you like about Biden, then? Honestly curious.
In no particular order: 90%ish of his foreign policy, a significant majority of his trade policy and domestic policies (I think he’s too protectionist but I knew that going in), his character, his passion about the little guy, his ability to negotiate deals, his environmental policy in broad strokes, that he actually succeeded in infrastructure reform at the federal level which is bonkers, his marriage, how he is as a dad, that he sometimes forgets not to curse, his support of unions coupled with his ability to make the right, hard choice, and his aviators
People keep focusing on Donnie when all the other repug candidates would also be just as bad or worse.
And yes Cheeto is the focus because he’s the frontrunner but we can’t lose sight of the rest.
Take solace in the fact that we’ll get a new candidate next election cycle. The trick will be convincing the democratic establishment that “not Trump” won’t work forever and they need to start putting forth candidates that actually get the voters excited.
Honestly I have my doubts (not in the US but very similar political setup here) the options seem to be that you can vote for shit (right) or mud (centre), or no one of course. The three outcomes for each vote always seems to be:
-no one: shit and mud both decide they need to get shittier to attract more voters.
-shit: mud decides it needs to be more like shit.
-mud: mud concludes that we’re all perfectly happy with mud and there’s no need to actually try and be anything pleasant.I wouldn’t imagine it’ll even work for longer than an election cycle or two; Trump is pretty old and hasn’t taken as good care of himself as he could (though admittedly he is rich and therefore has access to good healthcare), so if one goes too long, he won’t be around to run and so anyone voting to avoid him specifically won’t have that motivation, and even if he lives a long a healthy enough life to keep running for some time to come, if he loses a couple more elections and continues to turn the people against him he may begin to fade from political relevance (he’s got his dedicated supporters, sure, but if he’s not gaining new ones those will become a shrinking fraction of the electorate). Finally, if Trump wins another election, then either he successfully dismantles or controls the election system, making the issue moot, or he does not, and is therefore ineligible to run again after that term.
There’s the potential that whatever republican replaces Trump gets people similarly upset at them to use the same strategy, but relying on Trump himself to drive people to vote against him won’t be viable for long whatever happens.
Or like… any Republican
I’ve always been curious to know how Trump is a fascist? It always has seemed like a reactionary slur rather than a genuine label
“Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition”
That seems pretty on point to Trump, most things he says follow those lines. He likes Putin, he wanted to have all the power/authority not just over the exec branch, clearly is racist, says racist things, and does racist things. Loves wealth inequality and supporting policies that increase the wage/income gap and reduce law enforcement against the wealthy/increase it on the poor, chose supreme court justices that would force social norms onto people against their will. If he had his way, he’d absolutely love to be the head of an autocracy.
Maybe some of my points are stretching it, but that last one is pretty much all that’s needed. The term Fascist isn’t automatically Hitler, just like conservative isn’t automatically Hitler.
We know two different Trumps then apparently.
Propaganda working its magic
You don’t think your guy who literally tried to fire anyone investigating him and has plans to increase the power of the president if he gets re elected wants to be a dictator? Propaganda is indeed working, the shit is straight from his mouth you dumbass
I’m not denying I’m a victim of propaganda, but most people here are and it’s a red flag that they are victims of propaganda lol
Here are all the U.S. Presidents Ranked and coded by their administration ideology. Yes, the Trump Administration leaned Fascist based on policy and actions taken.
Thanks for sharing! Where’d you find the image? I’d be very curious to read about the methodology and ranking process.
This means nothing lol who made this?
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what in the fuck
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Normally, I don’t respond to “bOtH sIdEs” comments, but I was worried that other people might listen to you and won’t show up to vote, or will throw it away on a 3rd party candidate when our country unfortunately isn’t set up for that to work. We’d have to reform how voting works and campaign finance laws to even possibly make what you’re suggesting a tiny bit workable.
Things Biden has gotten done that are important to me in no particular order:
- Ukraine response
- Bipartisan (barely - 13 Rs in House, 19 Rs in Senate) Infrastructure Law (spending on fixing bridges, roads, etc.)
- CHIPS and Science Act (semiconductor chip manufacturing)
- Inflation Reduction Act (capped Medicare drug costs at $2k out of pocket, capped insulin prices for Medicare to $35 per month, increased funding for IRS to modernize and audit the wealthy, increased corporate taxes, investment in green energy)
- Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (strengthened background checks on guns, incentives red flag laws)
- Paused federal executions after Trump undid the previous freeze
- Repealed Trump’s ban on trans troops in the military
- Attempting student loan debt relief
- Released oil from the National Reserve to make gas prices less painful
- Signed bill for veteran burn pit care
- Postal Service Reform Act (modernize and fix the USPS)
- Respect for Marriage Act (forces ALL states to recognize same-sex marriage and interracial marriage rights)
- Renewed Violence Against Women Act after Trump let it expire
- Declared Juneteenth a holiday
- Pardoned federal convictions of marijuana possession
- Spent over $10.7 billion on federal, state, local, and tribal land conservation and has protected over 12 million acres of national public land (some of which had their protections removed by Trump)
(edited to fix a bullet point)
You should build power structures and organise outside of the system, but that doesn’t mean you should also vote. It has a much more immediate impact and even if Biden isn’t exactly great, he’s still drastically better than any republican.
I think the best proof that third parties aren’t worth your vote is that they aren’t remotely interested in building these independent power structures. They just run a grift where they say a bunch of buzzwords, put up a candidate, and ask for your donations to fund their yachts.
Lmao if Biden is making the crazy pacifist leftists mad, that’s just more support he gets from me
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Not a significant one. It isn’t 2005 any more.
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Lmao ok bud
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I voted for “not Trump” in 2020 but unless something new comes to light, I’m voting for Biden, not just against Trump. Do I objectively like him? No, not really, but he’s done the best work of any president to hold office during my lifetime.
This right here. Preach. Biden isn’t exciting, but he’s objectively doing a good job under the circumstances he’s been given to work with
I am down for politics returning to being boring.
I hope Gen Z sees the problem with Republicans and continues the push to get enough out of office we can keep righting the ship.
Biden may not be perfect, but he got a shit ton of stuff done with Republicans doing everything they can to ruin the economy, jobs, and their future.
I hope Gen Z does better than those before them and gets actively involved in such a way we can start abandoning this wack ass two party nonsense.
Ranked choice voting certainly has it’s issues, but damnit of it isn’t so much better than what we have.
I’ll take Approval Voting or Star Voting over Ranked choice voting… But I’ll definitely take Ranked choice over what we have right now.
I only recently learned about approval voting, and I really like it! I also would prefer that or ranked choice over what we have now. I need to look up star voting.
The United States is projected to shift toward the center and eventually left in the coming decades. I don’t know if it will ever approach Europe left, but it could eventually.
You’d have to see the end of Past the Post and the ability of more than two parties to have a chance before we ever approach European leftism. I love the dipshit Republicans labeling the democrats “communists” when they are centrists.
Not to mention the whole “campaign money raising” thing that’s being celebrated as a wonderful thing right here (as if that didn’t create conflicts of interest for even the most honest of politicians given that it’s the more well off who can give the most money).
In most of Europe political parties get public funds to for their campaigns.
The United States would have to create a new Consitution as the document requires a two party system for the government to function.
It doesn’t need to be new. Needs to be amended to remove the winner take all approach and avoid plurality voting.
Or maybe institute ranked choice voting across the board? You’d still have to get rid of Pass the Post to even be heard at the major debates.
“No, we’re not allowed to amend the constitution, it’s set in stone!” - People who just fucking love the second one.
So we’re on gen Z now? Used to say that about us millennials. Guess we let you guys down.
The vast majority of voters don’t are not highly informed and just have vibes. My uninformed vibe is that he’s pretty good at this job. Would I like someone as charismatic as Obama? Sure. But competency is more important and despite his age, he seems very competent.
As a non-American (hence I can get informed only through newspapers and friends), Biden seems very competent. The one who oppose him make fun of him falling from bicycles and stairs but tbh he’s doing very great economically and internationally
The left hates him because he’s not going out of his way to install liberal policy and it’s focusing on compromise with the GOP. If everyone at the table hates you a bit you are probably doing a good job.
A ton of people on the progressive left (of which I consider myself a member) don’t really understand how the federal government works. They think the President is the boss of Congress and can basically just do whatever he wants, and if he threatens Senators and Representative in his party enough, he can get them to bend to his will. That he can just order Facebook to be broken up, that he can unilaterally fine Norfolk Southern $100 billion.
They think that because Democrats didn’t pass BBB and implement paid family leave and a higher minimum wage when they had full control of Congress, that it must mean Democrats only pretended to support those things, completely ignoring the reality that the majority only existed because of a conservative Democrat from West Virginia that actually backs the party on most issues except the most expansive.
The fact is, Biden has had some pretty incredible liberal legislative victories with the smallest of Congressional majorities. The American Rescue Plan that continues to support local governments, a historic climate change bill, a historic infrastructure bill, a historic investment in domestic chip manufacturing. He united NATO after a decade of stagnation and expanded it more than it had in 30 years. Obama would’ve loved to have accomplished any of those, and he had a big majority in both chambers his first two years.
Some analyses show we’re now on pace to meet net zero emissions by 2050, and there’s immense new investment because everyone wants the subsidies and knows the big, long-term green investments will pay off. If Biden did nothing else besides the climate bill and perform basic functioning of government, I would consider his presidency a massive success, but he’s done so much more than that.
This is very well put. The people most cynical about Democrats are ironically the most naive in thinking that naming and shaming will force Republicans to vote the way you want.
Part of the difficulty being how much harder it is to build, make and do vs destroy and stall. The progressive left sees the fervent right tear down and block a lot when they have a slim majority and forget, in their righteous anger, that they’re asking for a much harder job and need a real majority.
What do we do to get out of this nightmare? Like… Specifically? How do we get the far-right to… Stop being far-right I guess? How do we get things built? How do we get good things to happen rather than, at best, stopping some bad thing from happening for at least a bit? It feels like that’s all we’ve been getting on a federal level lately… ~Cherri
The reply from mpa92643 that your reply is under went into detail about all the things that Biden and Democrats have done over the last few years. If you don’t think those are massive triumphs given the political climate and the very narrow majorities the Dems had, I don’t know what to tell you.
Those are things that weren’t just stopping bad things from happening.
Edit to address your question as well: the most substantive thing you can start with is voting Democrat and not any third party. Giving Democrats consistent and large enough majorities to combat the gerrymandering is vitally important to actually moving the country forward.
Sorry about that, I wasn’t doing too well last night. I’m just worried with how people like Ron DeSantis and Trump are just able to try doing a fascist coup and try to commit genocide against trans people with no legal consequences for either. Ron DeSantis tried (and failed, but still tried) to build his own personal paramilitary for god’s sake. And yet he’s still able to maintain power like none of that happened. It’s terrifying. ~Cherri
Well said
His appointments to e.g. the FCC suggest that he’s not opposed to progressive voices and is willing to put them in positions of power. Would I like him to be even more to the left? Sure, but he has to actually govern, so I think he’s doing a pretty decent job balancing the demands of the situation.
I don’t think he opposed at all, he’s doing what he needs to do with a narrow margin!
Opposed or Aligned… what he’s doing is leading where the people are willing to go. This is very much Obama’s game theory strategy (despite being more charismatic). There are times when I wish there was a leader on the Left with the charisma to really move things in that direction … but then I see how well that approach is going for the Right (I have no idea why they find Trump so charismatic but they do!).
I love capitulating in the face of climate catastrophe.
I think Biden would have made for a wonderful president a decade ago. The problem is that our issues are so extreme that such a cordial, non aggressive person is not a good fit
The wrong man for a bad time.
Between the exponential collapse of capitalism under its perpetual growth model, to the climate crisis, to a rise in global authoritarianism, what we needed was someone who can rock the boat and right the ship.
Non of these issues can be handled with half measures.
He’s less cordial than Obama was. Obama was all about getting consensus. Everytime the GOP or the SCOTUS do some shenanigans, Biden and his team come up with alternative plans to try to do end runs around their bullshit, he’s not trying to get the GOP onside he’s trying to govern around them. Obama would never have done that.
I disagree. I don’t think Biden is cordial at all, I think he’s realistic and knows how to get stuff done. Look at the debt ceiling negotiations - Biden wasn’t cordial to McCarthy. He knew the GOP had the leverage to get something out of it, and negotiated with them to make sure they got the least he could manage. He said he would work with them, but he called McCarthy and the rest of them out on their BS multiple times. O’Bama on the other hand, I thought let the GOP get away with way too much, and was way too conciliatory to them. At the time it was debatably the right strategy, but we see how it played out in hindsight.
Last time I voted against Trump, this time I’m voting for Biden.
That is assuming he is the candidate. Otherwise, I guess I’ll just have to vote against Trump again.
Yeah I was originally a Biden hater that supported him purely as a lesser of two evils. But now I fully believe he’s the best president we’ve had in decades (which isn’t a high bar, but still)
Super low bar… There has never been a president in my lifetime that has been on the side of the people of the United States. Biden says he is pro union but time and again backs management over labor. Obviously he is the lesser of two evils but it’s so broken that we keep getting these Boomers again and again that get money from billionaires while the middle class gets crushed.
Even with the rail strike, his administration kept working behind the scenes, and they finally got paid sick leave last month.
If he would’ve listened to his base, and played the short game, rail workers may have had paid leave a few months sooner, but inflation would’ve almost certainly been much worse, which would’ve hurt even more Americans.
That doesn’t strike me a “backing management.” He was weighing the needs of the general public in addition to the specific needs of rail workers. It may have taken a few months longer, but he was able to get paid sick leave while also getting inflation almost back to normal. That’s pretty damn good.
Unless we change the opinions of a large portion of middle Americans or get much higher participation in primaries, we’re stuck with this, and even then those rich and powerful with vested interests in the current system will resist that.
Another improvement would be ranked choice voting and the elimination of the electoral college, but those things also probably require everything you just said.
He didn’t back management at all, actually. Biden got those rail workers the paid sick leave they were asking for without a strike that would have crashed the economy. Which is exactly what he said he was going to do.
"Since then, several other railroad-related unions have also seen success in negotiating for similar sick-day benefits. These 12 unions represent more than 105,000 railroad workers.
“Biden deserves a lot of the credit for achieving this goal for us,” Russo said. “He and his team continued to work behind the scenes to get all of rail labor a fair agreement for paid sick leave.”
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
Biden says he is pro union but time and again backs management over labor.
I disagree, I think Biden has been the most pro-union and pro-labor President in my lifetime, by far. That article is a year out of date, and the Biden admin has kept it up since then. If they’d gotten BBB passed, we’d be in New Deal 2.0 territory. And that’s in two years.
I disagree, I think Biden has been the most pro-union and pro-labor President in my lifetime, by far
It’s true, but he’s still more pro-management than pro-labor. Why is DeJoy still leading USPS?
I remember reading into this once. I think it has to do with how the postal governors are set up. I believe a Republican term has to expire before he can put a Democrat in.
It’s a really byzantine and archaic system.
I’m open for a Somebody not Biden, Somebody not Trump, Somebody not Republican, Somebody not from a crazy batshit philosophy with rabid tyrants behind and Somebody who is competent to be on the ballot.
Can we get that someone, please?
I think we all need to watch a full Biden speech every once in a while, just to remind ourselves that he’s not the walking dementia case a lot of outlets portray using fifteen second clips of him stumbling on words halfway through a sentence (just like he stumbles on sandbags that are conveniently cropped out of these same videos).
He actually speaks really well considering he has a stutter that be had to work hard on. It can make him come across as ineloquent sometimes but if you actually listen to what he’s saying he doesn’t sound unintelligent. It’s easy to twist things though when you just pick and choose whatever miniscule soundbite you want though.
Also fucking look around for the most part he returned stability to our lives. The only thing continually threatening it is the right and the consequences of them being in power.
In terms of supporting Biden, I’m sure I’m broadly on your side, but I wanted to note: when I vote for Biden in 2024, it won’t be for stability.
Biden’s ban on ICE worksite immigration raids takes a miniscule step toward empowering migrant workers.
Biden’s decision to keep student loans paused for the entire first 30 months of his term has empowered borrowers by giving them more wiggle room to make decisions like moves and career changes. That translates to higher pay.
The energy efficient home improvement subsidies in the Inflation Reduction Act make individual homeowners less dependent on energy companies, and keeps more of their money out of those companies’ hands.
Biden’s ban on slave labor solar panel imports forces solar panel buyers to purchase from companies that pay their workers. This compounds an already existing labor shortage and gives workers even more leverage.
Like anyone, I was disappointed with the result of the rail workers’ strikes. But even there, the IBEW won a few sick day victories in negotiations with rail companies just this June, and their president said,
We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement.
So far from merely defending stability, Biden has been winning ground for workers on dozens of tiny, subtle battlegrounds, and that gives me hope for the future.
A few weeks ago, when I left Reddit, I saw an argument between anarchists and tankies where one of the tankies sneeringly referred to their anarchist interlocutor as an “anarcho-Bidenist”
I know it is not a real economic philosophy. I know it was supposed to be an insult. But after what I’ve seen of President Biden so far? Count me in.
This should be the top comment. Totally love your perspective and ability to write these thoughts down.
Awwww! Thank you!
He actually speaks really well considering he has a stutter that be had to work hard on. It can make him come across as ineloquent sometimes but if you actually listen to what he’s saying he doesn’t sound unintelligent. It’s easy to twist things though when you just pick and choose whatever miniscule soundbite you want though.
At the end of the day- he speaks exceptionally better than trump ever did.
He’s a bad public speaker like the last guy.
Right!? Although it’s hard to believe sometimes I know we have smart ppl that would do a great job.
Vote Green.
No. Do not vote for any candidate other than the one picked by the Democratic party (probably Biden) to run against the Republican candidate (probably Trump). Voting for alternative parties decreases Democratic votes for Biden, and increases the chances of a Trump reelection. Alternative candidates (even if they’re absolutely amazing individuals) don’t have a chance in hell of getting enough votes to make a difference, but they have an excellent chance of diverting voting mass from the Democratic candidate. Unless you’re really stoked for another four years of Trump and his fascist cronies, go for a straight Democratic ticket. Your protest vote won’t help anyone except Trump. Guaranteed. I wouldn’t be surprised if Republicans are supporting third party candidates in battleground states, cause that would be a smart move. Please vote for the Democrat, ffs.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Republicans are supporting third party candidates in battleground states, cause that would be a smart move.
There’s proof this happened with the Green party in multiple previous election cycles.
Montana Republicans bankrolled Green Party ballot access
GOP-linked firm paid $532,000 for Greens petition drive, files say
If you live in a safe state, feel free to cast a protest vote knowing it will not make a difference. We don’t have a national election.
2000? I could not vote for Al Gore, and I didn’t. Guess what?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_in_Oregon
Yup. No difference.
2016 I could not vote for Clinton.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_Oregon
Same deal.
So how are we supposed to actually get a genuinely progressive candidate in? And we can’t just leave things with the terrible two-party system we have. What’s the alternative other than “Vote lesser evil! Maybe we’ll get someone good rather than just not terrible eventually!”? Am I missing something here? ~Cherri
I mean kind of, but more like, “Let’s keep that crazy guy from making things absolutely dogshit and then from there we figure improvements out, but if the fascists take over it’s game over because they change the rules as soon as they get power in order to keep power.”
It’s not voting for a lesser evil. It’s a vote to keep democracy turned on. Once the democracy is turned off it’s incredibly hard to turn back on again. One guy talks about invalidating elections due to imaginary fraud while selling state secrets. The other guy is just old but he likes it when people vote in elections for things. Is that the lesser of two evils? Kind of a silly phrase. Any two things, one will be more evil, and as nothing is perfect, the other will have less but still some evil. The lesser of two evils is an excuse to do nothing or in this case, scuttle any hope of doing better in the future.
Why can’t we do more than one thing at the same time? Why not try to make things better than before and prevent the fascists (they’re not “crazy”, fasciam isn’t caused by mental illness) from taking over? I mean things being as terrible as they are for the working class right now is a pretty major factor in rhe recent rise in fascism, so really you have to do the former to do the latter, otherwise it won’t work. You have to meaningfully improve things to combat fascism. So what are we supposed to do to get things like UBI; single-payer M4A; a voting system better than first past the post, student debt cancellation and free college tuition; codification of the Convention of the Rights of the Child, queer civil rights, and Roe v. Wade, and other progressive policies to actually be implemented?.. ~Cherri
Love the downvotes with no explanation or answer to the question (even if it’s just “I don’t know”) /s ~Cherri
Primaries. It’s where most elections actually happen anyway. The vast majority of Senate seats are gerrymandered so that one or the other party is practically guaranteed a win. Generally the best strategy is to vote in whatever primary is going to win the general election, and try to move the levers from the inside instead of putting forth someone that is guaranteed to lose in the general.
How do we do all of that and get rid of the gerrymandering and stuff? Right now it doesn’t feel possible but… I don’t know, I forgot where I was going with this. ~Cherri
Your protest vote won’t help anyone except Trump
I don’t “protest vote”. I vote for the best candidates on the ballot. I vote for the candidates that I would like to see win.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Republicans are supporting third party candidates in battleground states, cause that would be a smart move.
I wish the Republicans were funneling money to socialists and other leftist candidates. I think it would backfire on them the same way “elevating” Trump did for the Democrats.
Please vote for the Democrat, ffs.
I sure will, as soon as the Democrats adopt single-payer health care, free college tuition, a Green New Deal, etc. If they want my vote, it’s simple: adopt the Greens’ platform. I have no loyalty to parties. I would’ve voted for Bernie if he’d gotten nominated.
Is a candidate you agree with 100% but who has 0% chance of winning the best candidate? Or, is it the candidate you agree with 75% and has 60% chance of winning?
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The current two-party system we have is god awful. We can’t leave it like this. What are we supposed to do? How do you propose we get single-payer M4A? UBI? Green New Deal? Free college tuition? Ratifying the Convention on the Rights of the Child? Codifying the rights of queer people? Codifying Roe v Wade? What specifically are we supposed to do about this if voting doesn’t work? Am I missing something here? How do we get out of this nightmare? ~Cherri
Campaign within the Democratic Party for those positions- they already have a lot of support.
Enough support among other politicians within the Democratic Party to get them to pass this stuff if they have a majority? ~Cherri
I understand being frustrated with the two-party system but given what we’ve got now, voting for anything other than the democratic ticket is detrimental to your views. Voting third party in our current political climate can literally only help Republicans.
As I said in another reply, until we have national ranked-choice voting, voting for a third party candidate is not in any way helpful, no matter how much you dislike the party. At the end of the day, it’s going to be far better having a Democratic majority and president than anyone from the GOP, who are an existential threat (climate change, reproductive rights, class equity, etc).
The failure of the left to unite behind the Green Party is what has caused so many of our problems. The Greens were talking about a Green New Deal over a decade ago; for the Democrats, that’s a fringe position even today. And that’s just one issue. Single payer health care was part of the Green platform back in the 90s, and that’s still a fringe position for Democrats 30 years later. I could go on and on.
The green party has been for the last decade funded by the GOP run PACs as a means to siphon left leaning votes. Don’t be a fool.
I’m the fool? The planet is burning, and they have you convinced that the one party who’s interested in fixing it is your enemy.
Ah, yes. I remember when I was young, healthy, middle class, single, and childless too.
It was also somewhat in the beforetimes. I used to ALWAYS vote third party. Then one party decided that facts, such as who won an election didn’t matter anymore, and that sealed the fate of my voting for third parties. We’ll really never see a viable third party until either one side of the R/D fractures into two parties, handing complete control for a while to the other, or we move away from ‘first past the post’ voting.
And then you sold out?
RFK is the best person in the race.
He specifically asked for someone NOT batshit crazy. That rules RFK out.
RFK’s environmentalism is appealing. Banning GMO, and cleaning up our natural resources. At least that’s what’s grabbed my attention. He’s also not a warmongering neocon like Biden. RFK wants a peace driven American society.
Bat shit crazy? If you say so but he’s got very good ideas.
GMO could be an important tool for maintaining crop yields during impending climate change. Banning it outright is bat shit crazy. Anti vax attitudes are already gaining traction. Electing an anti vaxxer would be bat shit crazy.
His environmentalism is a facade to try and capture people who think an appeal to nature is as good as actually having ideas.
Several countries in Europe already ban GMO. There’s a few countries in the middle east and Africa that ban GMO.
GMO has been responsible for environmental foibles and is not healthy for human consumption.
You speak in prophecy regarding the banning of GMOs destroying our future yet say it so matter of factly. It’s funny as fuck. Thanks for making my night lol.
GMO has been responsible for environmental foibles
Such as?
and is not healthy for human consumption.
That’s like saying ‘nuts are not healthy for human consumption’ because it’s possible to breed toxic varieties of almonds with high cyanide content in a conventional manner. Sure, it is possible to genetically engineer food to be unsafe. There is no evidence it’s happening and there would be no compelling reason to do that. There are lots of reasons to use it to make food healthier and more nutritious.
Yeah, but then there’s his anti-semitism and his conspiracy theory that COVID was genetically engineered so that it would spare the Jews but kill other people. Or his conspiracy theory that WiFi causes cancer and a leaky brain. Or his conspiracy theory that anti-depressants cause school shootings. Or his conspiracy theory that AIDS isn’t caused by HIV. Or his conspiracy theory that vaccinations cause autism. Or his conspiracy theory that Ivermectin is a magical cure for COVID. Or his conspiracy theory that Bill Gates collaborated with Dr. Anthony Fauci to make the pandemic appear much worse than it really was in order to promote vaccines.
And that’s just a tiny fraction of the insane conspiracy theories he has promoted over the years.
I really wouldn’t want to know what a guy like that would do with the power of the U.S. presidency.
Banning GMO
…is stupid. The only difference between a GMO banana and a regular banana is that the GMO banana was cultivated faster.
There is absolutely no evidence of any ill health effects or harm to our agriculture industry from GMO foods and a lot of evidence of the good it can do (such as the Golden Rice Project).
He is an anti-vaxer that proclaims vaccines cause autism, despite that being thoroughly debunked. So no, not going to put any trust in anything else he says.
Also, there’s a reason a bunch of right-wing tech bros are pumping money at him - specifically to fracture the liberal/independent vote to help Trump.
Having a two party system sucks, but until we get nation-wide ranked choice voting, it’s not going anywhere. And if you have liberal-leaning views, there’s no question that any Democratic candidate is going to be far better than any GOP candidate, by basically any metric.
RFK Jr. Is an openly Anti-Vax misinformation spreading conspiracy theorist who believes vaccines cause autism, regularly equates standard public health procedures to the damn Holocaust, pushed the use of Ivermectin for COVID in his book from 2021, and claimed that Chinese and Ashkenazi Jewish people were not affected by COVID because it was target white and black people. Regardless of his foreign intervention or environmental views, he’s a propagandist nut case who’s family openly shuns him. His father and uncle would be rolling in their graves if they could see who he turned out to be.
For crying out loud. Can we stop with these young bucks and get someone in the office that’s over 100 years old.
What about that catatonic mummy of a congresswoman who’s dragged around by her aides? Let’s get her in office and go full “Weekend At Bernie’s” with the presidency.
She would be perfect! As a matter of fact, the next president should be on life support. It only makes sense.
They could have run a ham sandwich last time and gotten my vote.
I don’t even eat ham but in this scanario I would give that sandwich my unwavering support.
Everything tastes like chicken but costs more money than chicken, so just eat chicken.
-a buddy of mine
The worst part about this is now Trump is the bar… We’ve basically gone from a douche vs a turd to I rather just not eat broken glass
Apt description. I’ll choose a douche over eating broken glass. You’re much more likely to survive one than the other.
Why can’t we just get a frickin good candidate on the ballot for once? I want to have real options, like a taco that poops ice cream. Is that so much to ask?
Its almost as if this isn’t actually a democracy at all.
plenty of other candidates exist.
Oh? RFK? West? Who has a real shot?
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People who say stuff like this are in a place of privilege. “Who cares if Trump wins again, we’ll organize against him!” Meanwhile he consolidates control (see his recent comments about increasing presidential powers), bans trans healthcare (even for adults), and appointing more SCOTUS justices that will make your organizing pointless.
Abstaining from voting is handing power to the far right.
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What if… and hear me out here… I don’t want to destroy the United States?
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He doesn’t have to fight for me, but he’s most certainly not actively fighting against me. There is a big difference between a party rooted in corruption and too busy stuffing their own pockets to care, and a party rooted in corruption that’s actively scapegoating the vulnerable, minorities, and the non-wealthy in order to enrich itself.
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possibly deSantis
DeSantis is better than Biden?
just about anyone is better than Biden. 90% are younger too
DeSantis, the guy who militarized the Florida State Guard, gave them 90 mil for military tanks, planes, boats, and guns, and appointed leaders who abused them and threw disagreeing old ex-Marines into white vans? The guy who said they’re doing this so they can invade other states and deal with immigrants and anyone else they deem a threat?
Man, you are really outing yourself as a fascist.
Are you saying you’ll vote for DeSantis? If so, why? And how do you think he’d be better than Biden?
well, he’s under 50 - we’ve had enough boomer-generation Presidents. on that note alone I’d vote for him. he’s also got experience in government, which Trump certainly didnt have - but literally anyone was better than another Clinton so he was basically a shoe-in.
You vote for presidents based on… age?
yep, it’s far more logical than believing the lies that they spout during their campaign
So you’d vote for an overt fascist, who:
- is tanking the economy of the state he governs for political brownie points with the most extreme conservative and authoritarian factions in the country
- wastes time, money, and effort perpetrating imbecilic culture wars just to give the aforementioned psychotic political base a category of “undesirables” to direct their hate and fear towards
- has - as a matter of public record - directed state law enforcement agencies to intimidate and harass a data scientist and her family during the pandemic simply because she was calling the state government out for data manipulation
- as a public policy during the pandemic, actively worked against public health measures, which provably increased the number of fatalities, and overall encouraged diminished trust in science and vaccines in conservative political circles
- is pandering to authoritarians, hate groups, and white supremacists
- has signed laws that allow the state to remove children from parents simply because said parents are understanding and accommodating if their kid feels more comfortable presenting outside of the heteronormative paradigm
- (we can go on; those are just some domestically-relevant bullet points, and I got tired of reciting heinous and idiotic shit he’s doing)
I detest how neoliberal Biden is. I wish he was younger. But if the choice is him or a literal fascist, I know who I’m voting for, and it’s not going to be the guy who is simply less old.
the benefit of an individual vote is that you get to make the choice, and you can vote for anyone you want
Weird headline … if the motivation is “somebody-other-than-Trump”, shouldn’t that result in more donations to other Republican candidates? At least until we’re through the primaries?
I also wonder how much is from corporate donations and PACs vs. individual donations. Trump is unhinged enough to scare wealthy conservatives…business interests favor stability and the status quo, and the finance industry has a special place in its heart for credit card Joe. (As a twisted bonus, gridlock in Washington is considered good for the stock market.) And if we’re measuring in dollars here, the opinion of one CEO or board is going to count thousands of times more than any of our donations.
The media is interested in a horse race. Horse races sell ads. Therefore, they need to make Biden seem unpopular with mainstream Democrats (so there’s somehow Controversy over whether an incumbent President should run) and they do that by painting him as being purely a Not-Trump. Because the alternative is that Biden runs in 2024 without any drama and defeats Trump like he did in 2020, and foregone conclusions don’t sell advertising space, even if they’re good for the country.
Plus, of course, you have grifters like the people pulling RFK Jr’s strings and Cornel West and whoever else, who need to seem relevant in order to get “low-information voters” (idiots) to donate to their campaigns which are Definitely Not book tours in disguise.
For what it’s worth, my understanding is that the election is so far out that most average people haven’t begun donating yet. This is mostly PAC and corpo money.
“Always was…”
To clarify, most individual donors are check bundled as part of “not pac” Pac activities. Look at the donor lists and dates where there are hundreds at the individual donor limit, and all received during the same day… it happens all the time for all the politicians that are for sale. (I guess everyone but the handful of house members ala: Katie Porter has said they’d take PAC money…)
We haven’t seen any indication yet that the R candidate will be anyone other than Trump.
Even the R hopefuls are trying to be Trump to try to pick up the pieces if Trump is unable to run
We’ve got 2 types of politicians now, Populist Polar Penguins, and Middling Milquetoast Mouthbreathers. If you don’t want the Penguins you gotta vote for the Mouthbreathers that will get the most votes. And vice versa. The parties are just outfits the funding sources put on their puppets every election cycle, they love it though since they get to share the strings on either one.
I feel like I did when I was a kid, and Pro Wrestling was obviously fake, but saying that outloud was going to get me kicked out of every backyard WWF match in the neighborhood. There’s a big group of people that look at politics and don’t see the obvious pagentry and don’t draw the stupidly clear lines between the haves and the poltiical campaigns around the nation or if they do “it’s only the other guy that’s faking it!”
“You’re right, Macho Man is faking it, but so is the Hulkster.”
“YOU TAKE THAT BACK YOU MOTHERFUCKER!”
Very nicely written
Politics just feels like a “bad guy of the week” show. Republicans keep running worse and worse candidates while democrats keep saying that we must get rid of this latest bad guy at all costs while pushing for some vague “center” which is very concerning when the other side is composed of outright fascists. When can we actually push for progress instead of just keeping our heads above a water level that keep rising? There’s an endless supply of fascists in the republican party and, as if that wasn’t bad enough, there’s also an endless supply of liebermans, manchins, and sinemas on the democrat side.
sometimes it looks like it is almost intentional to have a complete shoe-in.
i dislike the ‘biden is a puppet!!’ memes because that feels cheap and as if i support the right but literally all candidates are a puppet and now it seems they have a method to decide most elections
If only they could be like NASCAR and have their sponsors labeled on their jackets.
If it is a conspiracy that strategy can’t work forever, eventually republican voters will give up if their party stays too small of a minority for too long, then we can have contests between actually candidates again.
The only politicians you see or can vote for are corporate shills. Corporations are not your friend.
This both sides the same bullshit is how we ended up with Trump in the first place. Stop it.
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or anything but a republican
I wish this country could break free of the 2 party system. No matter who wins at this point, we all lose.
The United States Consitution was amended to force a two-party system.
